10:05 <ochosi> #startmeeting
10:05 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Aug 26 10:05:42 2014 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
10:05 <meetingology> 
10:05 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
10:05 <ochosi> hey !team
10:06 <ochosi> !team | hey everyone, meeting time
10:06 <ubottu> hey everyone, meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
10:06 <bluesabre> hey ochosi
10:06 <skellat> o/
10:06 <ochosi> just as a disclaimer, i might get a phone-call during the meeting that i'll have to take
10:06 <ochosi> so don't worry if i'm suddenly mute :)
10:07 <ochosi> (i didn't die in front of my computer in that case)
10:07 <bluesabre> as far as we'll know
10:07 <ochosi> :]
10:08 <ochosi> soo, who's here apart from bluesabre and skellat?
10:08 <slickymasterWork> o/
10:09 <ochosi> right, so let's get on with it
10:09 <ochosi> #topic gksu/do versus pkexec
10:09 <ochosi> we still have that on our agenda
10:09 <ochosi> bluesabre: wanna #info something on that?
10:09 <bluesabre> #info we now have pkexec policy files for thunar and mousepad
10:10 <bluesabre> they, among other things, need translations https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings
10:10 <ochosi> what's the doc-status on this?
10:10 <slickymasterWork> on what ochosi? pkexec?
10:11 <ochosi> yup
10:11 <ochosi> bluesabre: so a call for translations to the ML maybe?
10:11 <slickymasterWork> well, knome and I haven't started working on that
10:11 <ochosi> but you have it on the radar
10:11 <slickymasterWork> but we're planning to do it shortly
10:12 <slickymasterWork> yeaps
10:12 <ochosi> #info slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec
10:12 <ochosi> #undo
10:12 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
10:12 <ochosi> #action slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec
10:12 * meetingology slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec
10:12 <bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, need to do a call for all of our projects
10:12 <bluesabre> though, I think there was one already recently
10:12 <ochosi> bluesabre: mind doing that (since you seem to have the overview)?
10:13 <bluesabre> sure thing
10:13 <slickymasterWork> bluesabre: have upload the new strings for menulibre?
10:13 <slickymasterWork> + you
10:13 <ochosi> #action bluesabre will send a call for translations for all our projects to the mailinglist
10:13 * meetingology bluesabre will send a call for translations for all our projects to the mailinglist
10:13 <bluesabre> slickymasterWork, not yet, to do shortly
10:13 <slickymasterWork> ok
10:13 <bluesabre> was going to do it sunday with other translation releases, got derailed by gtk-theme-config
10:13 <bluesabre> :)
10:13 <ochosi> :)
10:14 <ochosi> so, anything else on pkexec?
10:14 <bluesabre> We have thunar and mousepad policies, need anything else?
10:14 <knome> slickymasterWork, looks like i'll have some time today
10:14 <knome> bluesabre, tell me, why does mousepad need it?
10:14 <ochosi> bluesabre: well we've asked around (also on the ML), and that's what ppl came up with
10:14 <slickymasterWork> great knome. I'll ready whenever you are
10:14 <knome> because it can save files to system locations?
10:14 <slickymasterWork> + be
10:15 <ochosi> knome: ppl might want an editor for config files? (e.g. lightdm config)
10:15 <bluesabre> knome: dunno, I did what the others told me :)
10:15 <bluesabre> ^
10:15 <ochosi> or logind policies or whatever
10:15 <knome> ochosi, right, so wouldn't any app that saves files potentially need a policy, like transmission
10:15 <bluesabre> edit != save
10:15 <knome> what about abiword/gnumeric?
10:16 <knome> aha
10:16 <skellat> knome: In general you would not be using transmission to land a file straight to /var/apt/cache
10:16 <ochosi> i'd do this on an on-demand basis, tbh
10:16 <skellat> For example
10:16 <slickymasterWork> bluesabre, what about for xfce4-terminal?
10:16 <bluesabre> anyway, I see this going down the wrong trail :)
10:16 <knome> i'm just asking
10:16 <knome> argument accepted.
10:16 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: the terminal really doesn't need one
10:16 <knome> so we're covering the "sensible" use cases that might need policies
10:16 <ochosi> you can execute super-user commands in a terminal anyway
10:17 <knome> skellat, thank you sherlock ;)
10:17 <bluesabre> haha
10:17 <slickymasterWork> ochosi, yes, I agree with you. was just asking because it was included in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Pkexec
10:17 <skellat> knome: If memory serves, there actually is an apt transport package for using bittorrent if you really wanted to for some reason
10:17 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: yeah, that was a place set up for suggestions (incl. some from the community)
10:18 <slickymasterWork> ok, got it
10:18 <knome> skellat, sure. and some people might want to download torrents to system directories, like sharing an ISO with all the users but not let them touch it.
10:18 <ochosi> so we took thunar and mousepad cause they made some sense, but not the terminal
10:18 <ochosi> ok, let's get back on the topic
10:18 <ochosi> anything else on pkexec?
10:18 <bluesabre> not from me
10:18 <knome> nope
10:18 <skellat> Nope
10:18 <ochosi> ok, moving along
10:18 <ochosi> #topic Open Action Items
10:19 <ochosi> from last time there are a few open action items
10:19 <ochosi> knome: any clue whether pleia2 started with the marketing support for the xfce bounty programme?
10:19 <ochosi> or shall we carry that along to the next meeting?
10:19 <knome> i imagine not.
10:19 <knome> let's carry it on
10:19 <ochosi> #action marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
10:19 * meetingology marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
10:19 <ochosi> bluesabre: what about your action items?
10:20 <bluesabre> #info DONE: bluesabre to put list of xubuntu packageset packages on wiki (somebody beat me to it by adding the link)
10:20 <bluesabre> #info DONE: bluesabre to upload new xubuntu-default-settings
10:21 <bluesabre> #info DONE: bluesabre to enable clutter in parole, set as default in xubuntu-default-settings
10:21 <ochosi> oh, where is that page?
10:21 <knome> bluesabre, #done too :P
10:21 <bluesabre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes#Maintained_packages
10:21 <ochosi> huhu
10:21 <knome> i want and added that link :)
10:21 <skellat> #info DONE: skellat to mail list to see if anyone wishes to identify specific low-hanging fruit tasks for the Global Jam
10:21 <bluesabre> 06:05 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
10:21 <knome> bluesabre, sorry for taking your item..
10:22 <knome> bluesabre, that's broken. lderan!
10:22 <bluesabre> knome: somebody had to do them, and I was dragging my feet ;)
10:22 <ochosi> knome: i guess we already carried your item forward...
10:22 <knome> ochosi, yep, that's fine.
10:22 <ochosi> #topic Team Updates
10:23 <ochosi> #info ochosi did a new release of the icon theme that adds support for the new power-manager amongst others
10:24 <bluesabre> #info new versions of catfish, lightdm-gtk-greeter, xfce4-power-settings, xfce4-settings, light-locker-settings have landed
10:24 <ochosi> \o/
10:24 <ochosi> nice work bluesabre
10:24 <ochosi> (even though i'm not sure what xfce4-power-settings is, must be a new project ;))
10:24 <bluesabre> whatever that thing is, obviously not my project ;)
10:25 <bluesabre> #undo
10:25 <bluesabre> er not
10:25 <bluesabre> ;)
10:25 <ochosi> #undo
10:25 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
10:25 <ochosi> bluesabre: now feel free to go again ;)
10:25 <ochosi> #chair bluesabre
10:25 <meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre ochosi
10:25 <bluesabre> #info new versions of catfish, lightdm-gtk-greeter, xfce4-power-manager, xfce4-settings, light-locker-settings have landed
10:26 <ochosi> #info ochosi talked to ubuntu devs about gtk3.12 affecting our default applications like evince. they will all remain in their gtk3.10 versions for 14.10, so we have nothing to worry about with headerbars and client-side decorations
10:26 <ochosi> if anyone spots problems with that ^ though, be sure to let me know
10:27 <bluesabre> #info outside of that, headerbars and CSD work well enough with xubuntu... with compositor on they are fine, with it off, they have an extra xfwm titlebar on top
10:27 * bluesabre did some testing on the side
10:28 <ochosi> cool
10:28 <ochosi> saw the screenshots, it's okay
10:28 <ochosi> even if it isn't pretyt
10:28 <ochosi> pretty
10:28 <bluesabre> yup, not broken = yay
10:28 <ochosi> :D
10:29 <ochosi> any other updates..?
10:29 <bluesabre> oh yeah
10:29 <bluesabre> #info apt-offline is fixed in utopic, courtesy of Unit193
10:29 <ochosi> nice
10:30 <ochosi> ok, moving along...
10:30 <ochosi> #topic Announcements
10:30 <ochosi> #info Beta1 freeze is in effect
10:31 <knome> #info Beta1 releas on Thursday
10:31 <knome> bah
10:31 <knome> releas releas!
10:31 <ochosi> #undo
10:31 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
10:31 <ochosi> #chair knome
10:31 <meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre knome ochosi
10:31 <knome> #info Beta1 release on Thursday
10:31 <bluesabre> #info Feature freeze is also in effect
10:31 <ochosi> i guess we're in bugfix mode then
10:32 <knome> #info Following freezes: UI freeze Sept 11, Doc string freeze Sept 18 ...
10:32 <ochosi> are there any blockers any of you have been seeing? (those of you who have been testing utopic i mean)
10:32 <bluesabre> so far, we're pretty clear... things have stabilized a lot in the past week or so
10:33 <ochosi> good to hear
10:33 <ochosi> i'm actually just running updates on my utopic VM now
10:33 <knome> if i have any time and motivation, i'll try to set up my old laptop for testing
10:33 <ochosi> ok, any other announcements?
10:33 <ochosi> knome: that'd be nice!
10:33 <knome> otherwise i guess i'll just have to do VM testing at some point (again)
10:34 * slickymasterWork will continue with VM testing
10:34 <bluesabre> yeah
10:35 <bluesabre> #info Beta 1 is Thursday, we'll need iso testing, see elfy's mail: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-August/010387.html
10:35 <ochosi> a bit offtopic, but i have to admit i really enjoy the way whiskermenu works in utopic. with all the settings dialogs there, it's quite the universal launcher
10:35 <ochosi> yeah, i'll try to do a test this week
10:35 <ochosi> would be great if others could join in too
10:36 <ochosi> more announcements?
10:36 <knome> i'll try to squeeze some testing in, but tbh, schedule looks meh
10:36 <bluesabre> yeah, was going to do one this morning, beta1 is not on the list yet it seems
10:36 <slickymasterWork> I'll do some
10:37 <bluesabre> great :D
10:37 <ochosi> yup, elfy will be happy to see those flowing in :)
10:37 <ochosi> #topic Discussion
10:38 <ochosi> #subtopic Incentives to get more people to help with QA and testing
10:38 <ochosi> i've discussed this with elfy and knome in this channel previously
10:38 <ochosi> but i thought we might want to consider throwing some of the leftover resources we have at people who help with testing
10:39 <ochosi> elfy has had a bit of a hard time this cycle finding and motivating folks to run the tests
10:39 <ochosi> which is probably partially due to this being LTS+1, partially due to testing not being the most exciting task in the world
10:39 <ochosi> (and maybe there are other factors i'm not thinking of now)
10:39 <knome> summer?
10:39 <ochosi> be that as it may, i think testing and QA is really important for us and we've had a great run in 14.04 with it
10:39 <bluesabre> partially due to virtualbox seeming to fail on start
10:40 <ochosi> we should try to maintain that somehow and try to get new folks involved in that department
10:40 <ochosi> so one idea was to set up a sort of "incentive programme" where e.g. the "tester of the month" gets a xubuntu-sticker in the mail
10:40 <ochosi> and the "tester of the cycle" gets a t-shirt
10:40 <ochosi> just as examples
10:41 <bluesabre> I think that'd be cool
10:41 <ochosi> i'd like to hear some opinions on that from you guys
10:41 <ochosi> (fwiw, i see a beneficial side-effect in this, we might be able to attract more people to contributing. testing is a good first step of getting familiar with xubuntu and the procedures around it)
10:42 <ochosi> slickymasterWork, skellat: opinions on ^ ?
10:43 <ochosi> knome: btw, how does that work with the stickers now, can we just order a single one on behalf of somebody else, i.e. get it mailed directly to someone's house?
10:43 <bluesabre> the stickers from unixstickers are pretty nice
10:44 <slickymasterWork> well, I believe that there are people testing, thing is that most of the people don't report their tests
10:44 <knome> ochosi, you'll have to ask pleia2 who set it all up
10:44 <ochosi> is what pleia2 set up unixstickers?
10:44 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: right, so we might need more incentive to get people to report their tests then i guess
10:44 <slickymasterWork> but the incentive program seems a good idea
10:45 <bluesabre> yeah, there are definitely people testing, got lots of feedback when I broke shimmer-themes ;)
10:45 <knome> to me, it doesn't seem to have any difference if we get completely new testers, or those who just don't report, to actually report tests
10:45 <ochosi> +1
10:45 <slickymasterWork> yes, the only way they would get rewarded would be measured but the number of reported tests
10:46 <bluesabre> yup
10:46 <skellat> I agree with knome.  Reporting is the key.
10:46 <ochosi> ok, i suggest we let elfy come up with some ideas and vote on it in the next meeting?
10:46 <slickymasterWork> wfm
10:47 <ochosi> (we might also have to review those options in terms of how much work it actually is to get a sticker sent to someone's house every month)
10:47 * slickymasterWork is aiming for the t-shirt :P
10:48 <bluesabre> on a slightly related note, just wondering if there was any progress on this:
10:48 <bluesabre> xubutrello: card 22 link
10:48 <xubutrello> Couldn't find any card with id: 22. Aborting.
10:48 <bluesabre> that never works for me
10:48 <bluesabre> https://trello.com/c/835Pk6MH
10:48 <ochosi> #action elfy shall set up a page for the QA incentive programme, collecting proposals/ideas for rewards and a general outline of it
10:48 * meetingology elfy shall set up a page for the QA incentive programme, collecting proposals/ideas for rewards and a general outline of it
10:48 <knome> maybe team members should be not allowed to win :P
10:49 <ochosi> awwwwh :)
10:49 <slickymasterWork> I want one with xub icon surfing knome
10:49 <ochosi> we can discuss that once elfy has set up that page i guess
10:49 <knome> well, it doesn't motivate new contributors..
10:49 <ochosi> ok, let's carry on
10:49 <ochosi> #subtopic Jenkins for image testing
10:50 <ochosi> since bluesabre just brought it up, any idea what that idea was all about? :)
10:50 <skellat> Jenkins is a "continuous integration" system but that's all I know about it
10:51 <ochosi> i've seen jenkins in action for xfce
10:51 <ochosi> and it seems quite good in terms of catching build-time errors
10:51 <ochosi> not sure what else it can do
10:53 <ochosi> alright, one last topic from my side...
10:53 <ochosi> #subtopic Trello and launchpad blueprints (again)
10:54 <ochosi> while elfy has synced the two, i really think that for the next cycle we should decide on which one we want to carry on with
10:54 <ochosi> using both is tedious and even more annoying than using launchpad during 14.04 was
10:54 <ochosi> and i appreciate that knome did put a lot of effort into getting the blueprint system running
10:55 <ochosi> so yeah, it's probably too early now, but i'd like us to have this discussion again towards the end of the cycle
10:56 <ochosi> and hear how team members felt it went
10:56 <bluesabre> sounds good to me
10:57 <ochosi> i've personally disliked launchpad for its slowness, but the integration of the bugs and branches etc is quite good
10:58 <ochosi> maybe it can be improved somehow
10:58 <ochosi> alrighty, from my side, that's it
10:58 <ochosi> any other topics for discussion?
10:58 <bluesabre> yeah
10:59 <ochosi> go ahead :)
10:59 <bluesabre> #subtopic UI Updates
11:00 <bluesabre> #info lightdm-gtk-greeter no longer supports proper centering, wondering if you guys think we should keep the "kinda-centered" layout, or consider others
11:00 <bluesabre> examples, http://imgur.com/a/aSj6W#0
11:01 <bluesabre> and not sure if this is info-worthy, but do we want to stick with the desktop icon sizes, or adjust? http://imgur.com/tsLjypk
11:01 <ochosi> ah right
11:01 <ochosi> yeah, thanks for bringing that up again
11:01 <bluesabre> this all comes from xubuntu-default-settings, so changes are quick and easy, but wanted to discuss before UIF
11:02 * slickymasterWork likes the power on right option
11:02 <ochosi> i'm leaning towards "clock, power on right" as long as the clock isn't really centered
11:02 <slickymasterWork> I'm with you ochosi
11:03 <slickymasterWork> also, IMO we would stick with the desktop icon sizes
11:03 <knome> yep, that seems like the best one
11:03 <ochosi> it's close to our default panel layout and "clock on right" somehow looks wrong
11:03 <bluesabre> and with the icons, you can click the image to make it not tiny
11:03 <slickymasterWork> yes
11:04 <bluesabre> yeah, I agree with the clock, power on right
11:04 <knome> re: desktop 48/64 is ymy favorite
11:04 <ochosi> yeah, i somewhat agree with knome on that
11:04 <knome> or could be that 32/64 was even better
11:04 <knome> anything >64 on tooltip just looks way too huge
11:04 <ochosi> also from a technical side, we have a lot of icons for 64px, but not so many for 96px yet
11:04 <ochosi> so lotsa potential fuzziness
11:05 <bluesabre> My complaint is that with 32, File Syst... is cut off, though I realize this probably happens a lot for other locales
11:05 * slickymasterWork also prefers desktop 48/64
11:06 <ochosi> bluesabre: so let's set the tooltip to 64px and see how that looks
11:06 <bluesabre> k
11:06 <ochosi> i don't mind bumping the size of the icons back to 48px
11:06 <ochosi> (call, brb)
11:12 <ochosi> sorry about that
11:12 <ochosi> bluesabre: so if you don't mind let's start with only the tooltips and if we dislike the 32px then, we bump that too
11:13 <ochosi> no need to discuss that in a meeting though
11:13 <bluesabre> alrighty
11:13 <ochosi> sidenote: i was also considering to make the top panel 26 instead of 24px
11:13 <bluesabre> just good to get multiple inputs :)
11:13 <bluesabre> yes please
11:13 <ochosi> sure
11:13 <bluesabre> :)
11:13 <ochosi> only problem atm with that is that the power-manager icon doesn't support it yet
11:13 <ochosi> will have to pull a few strings again
11:14 <ochosi> anyway...
11:14 <bluesabre> oh?
11:14 <ochosi> wrapping it up
11:14 <ochosi> thanks everyone for the meeting!
11:14 <ochosi> #endmeeting