== Meeting information ==
 * #xubuntu-devel Meeting, 15 Jul at 10:08 — 10:58 UTC
 * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-07-15-10.08.log.html]]



== Meeting summary ==

=== Open action items ===
The discussion about "Open action items" started at 10:11.

  * ''ACTION:'' slickymaster Add core information to FAQ

=== Default irc client ===
The discussion about "Default irc client" started at 10:15.

  * ''ACTION:'' elfy Inform the team on the mailinglist about potential bugs/regressions of hexchat over xchat

=== Gksu/do ===
The discussion about "Gksu/do" started at 10:21.

  * ''LINK:'' https://trello.com/c/wn31wIF5/81-add-core-information-to-faq 
  * ''LINK:'' http://pastebin.com/G2nGpEdt <- for xfce4-terminal
  * ''ACTION:'' ochosi to talk with folks in #ubuntu-devel about the upsides/downsides of gksu and pkexec and then inform the team
  * ''ACTION:'' bluesabre to set up a page on the ubuntu-wiki collecting apps that potentially need a pkexec profile and send an email to the list to get users to contribute to the list

=== Team updates ===
The discussion about "Team updates" started at 10:34.

  * The Marketing blueprint has been updated with plans for this cycle https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-marketing
  * bug #1299743 is now Fix Committed status
  * bluesabre now has upload rights for the xubuntu packageset
  * ''ACTION:'' bluesabre to review applications shipped by xubuntu to make sure they are in the xubuntu packageset (menulibre is not currently included)
  * ''ACTION:'' ochosi and bluesabre to work on blog posting for xubuntu.org about the resolved black screen bug (for 14.04.1)
  * ''ACTION:'' slickymaster to write up a draft for "things to do after a 12.04->14.04 upgrade"
  * xubuntu-dev PPAs are growing with an increased number of packages for trusty and utopic - https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging - https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/extras

=== Discussion ===
The discussion about "Discussion" started at 10:51.

  * ''ACTION:'' bluesabre to investigate what packages would be pulled in for being able to use Parole's clutter backend

=== Announcements ===
The discussion about "Announcements" started at 10:56.

  * Xfce packages are now accepted under the MRE (micro release exceptions). Thanks Jackson!

=== Schedule next meeting ===
The discussion about "Schedule next meeting" started at 10:57.

  * ''ACTION:'' bluesabre is to set up the next meeting



== Vote results ==




== Action items, by person ==

 * bluesabre
  * bluesabre to set up a page on the ubuntu-wiki collecting apps that potentially need a pkexec profile and send an email to the list to get users to contribute to the list
  * bluesabre to review applications shipped by xubuntu to make sure they are in the xubuntu packageset (menulibre is not currently included)
  * ochosi and bluesabre to work on blog posting for xubuntu.org about the resolved black screen bug (for 14.04.1)
  * bluesabre to investigate what packages would be pulled in for being able to use Parole's clutter backend
  * bluesabre is to set up the next meeting
 * ochosi
  * ochosi to talk with folks in #ubuntu-devel about the upsides/downsides of gksu and pkexec and then inform the team
  * ochosi and bluesabre to work on blog posting for xubuntu.org about the resolved black screen bug (for 14.04.1)
 * **UNASSIGNED**
  * slickymaster Add core information to FAQ
  * elfy Inform the team on the mailinglist about potential bugs/regressions of hexchat over xchat
  * slickymaster to write up a draft for "things to do after a 12.04->14.04 upgrade"



== Done items ==

 * (none)



== People present (lines said) ==

 * ochosi (129)
 * bluesabre (62)
 * slickymasterWork (42)
 * pleia2 (16)
 * meetingology (13)
 * ubottu (2)
 * xubutrello (1)



== Full Log ==


 10:08 <ochosi> #startmeeting

 10:08 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 15 10:08:00 2014 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 10:08 <meetingology> 

 10:08 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick

 10:08 <ochosi> who's here for the meeting?

 10:08 <pleia2> o/

 10:08 <pleia2> I'm in Germany this week, so this meeting isn't at 3AM :)

 10:08 <ochosi> hehe, nice

 10:09 * ochosi is already a bit hungry, it's lunchtime in .at too ;)

 10:09 <pleia2> hehe

 10:09 <slickymasterWork> o/

 10:09 <ochosi> !team | meeting time everyone! :)

 10:09 <ubottu> meeting time everyone! :): bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193

 10:09 <bluesabre> \o/

 10:11 <ochosi> wow, quite the turnout :)

 10:11 <ochosi> anyway, i guess let's start since pleia2 isn't around that much longer

 10:11 <ochosi> #topic Open action items

 10:12 <ochosi> doesn't look like we have much

 10:12 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: how is the -core stuff doing?

 10:12 <slickymasterWork> haven't been able to start it yet ochosi :P

 10:12 <slickymasterWork> lately things at work haven't been easy

 10:13 <bluesabre> xubuntu-core?

 10:13 <ochosi> yup

 10:13 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: no worries, there's still time ;)

 10:13 <ochosi> we can carry that forward i guess

 10:14 <bluesabre> I merged the branch for that last night, so that should appear shortly in utopic :)

 10:14 <ochosi> #action slickymaster Add core information to FAQ

 10:14 * meetingology slickymaster Add core information to FAQ

 10:14 <slickymasterWork> I targeting to get that in mid august ochosi

 10:14 <slickymasterWork> s/I/I'm

 10:14 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: is it on trello?

 10:14 <ochosi> if not, please add it there

 10:14 <slickymasterWork> not yet

 10:14 <slickymasterWork> will do

 10:14 <ochosi> ty

 10:14 <ochosi> ok, we have two things on our agenda...

 10:15 <ochosi> #topic Default irc client

 10:15 <ochosi> sooo, we had a bit of discussion on the ML

 10:15 <ochosi> i'm not sure that was really entirely conclusive

 10:15 <pleia2> yeah, not so much

 10:15 <ochosi> from what i gather, most people are in favor of hexchat>xchat

 10:16 <ochosi> but whether to just use pidgin instead, that was not very clear as a feedback

 10:16 <bluesabre> I think at present, we should replace xchat with hexchat

 10:16 <ochosi> i'm generally fine with that

 10:17 <bluesabre> since we never had any conclusive decision, and hexchat is effectively the newer version

 10:17 <ochosi> iirc elfy had some concerns wrt hexchat

 10:17 <ochosi> some bugs or regressions i think

 10:17 <bluesabre> I see

 10:17 <ochosi> generally i'm fine with proceeding that way

 10:18 <pleia2> me too, can we action elfy to let us know what the issues are?

 10:18 <ochosi> i don't remember how grave the problems were, and it seems neither Unit193 nor elfy are around

 10:18 <ochosi> sounds like a good idea

 10:18 <bluesabre> sounds good to me. Then we can work to resolve those items prior to next meeting

 10:18 <ochosi> (since he didn't say anything on the ML)

 10:19 <ochosi> #action elfy Inform the team on the mailinglist about potential bugs/regressions of hexchat over xchat

 10:19 * meetingology elfy Inform the team on the mailinglist about potential bugs/regressions of hexchat over xchat

 10:19 <ochosi> generally speaking, i'd be fine with trying to just go with pidgin for a cycle in case hexchat has regressions

 10:20 <ochosi> so either way, i'd do away with xchat for at least 14.10

 10:20 <ochosi> thoughts/comments?

 10:20 <pleia2> sounds good

 10:20 <bluesabre> I agree

 10:21 <ochosi> okeydokey, then let's discuss this again next time with elfy's intel

 10:21 <ochosi> #topic Gksu/do

 10:21 <ochosi> now, this is a topic i don't know much about

 10:21 <ochosi> so i'm hoping one of you has done the homework :p

 10:22 <ochosi> (i read what was posted on the ml, but nothing beyond that)

 10:22 <slickymasterWork> xubutrello: card 81 link

 10:22 <xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/wn31wIF5/81-add-core-information-to-faq

 10:22 <slickymasterWork> ochosi: ^^

 10:22 <ochosi> thanks slickymasterWork

 10:22 <bluesabre> cool, so there are a few things going on here

 10:23 <bluesabre> 1. Ubuntu moved away from using gksu(do) in favor of pkexec.  Most of their applications now ship pkexec policies, so this was an acceptable item for them.

 10:23 <bluesabre> 2. We followed suit.  However, most of our applications do not have pkexec policies, so we're a bit behind on that.

 10:24 <bluesabre> so 3. the question is, do we want to return gksu(do), or create an effort to make pkexec policies for our common applications?

 10:24 <slickymasterWork> we sort of had a similar discussion on this last cycle regarding the occurrences of gksu in the documentation

 10:24 <ochosi> hm, i see

 10:24 <bluesabre> gksu has been the norm for a long time, and you could say that users expect it

 10:25 <slickymasterWork> and it was decided to drop gksu favoring the use of sudo .i

 10:25 <slickymasterWork> *sudo -i

 10:25 <ochosi> so does anybody have an idea how many apps are affected?

 10:25 <ochosi> (just to get an idea of how much work it'd be)

 10:25 <bluesabre> I think it depends entirely on what we want users to be running as superuser

 10:25 <bluesabre> firefox: probably a bad idea

 10:25 <slickymasterWork> ochosi: you're just referring to shipped app's, right?

 10:26 <slickymasterWork> firefox is definitely one

 10:26 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: yes, those we ship

 10:26 <bluesabre> mousepad and terminal could both be beneficial

 10:26 <ochosi> but yeah, it makes one wonder about whether we're causing users issues on other apps...

 10:26 <ochosi> thunar?

 10:26 <bluesabre> yes

 10:27 <slickymasterWork> I think that terminal would be another

 10:27 <ochosi> how much work is it to add a pkexec profile?

 10:27 <bluesabre> one sec

 10:28 <ochosi> pleia2: btw, if you have to run but have team updates, i'll give you the floor anytime...

 10:28 <pleia2> ochosi: yeah, I should do that soon :)

 10:28 <bluesabre> sample file: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/trunk/view/head:/com.ubuntu.pkexec.lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings.policy.in

 10:28 <pleia2> seems not so bad

 10:29 <ochosi> yeah, but that all has to go upstream ideally, right?

 10:29 <pleia2> I assume at least to the packages in debian first

 10:29 * ochosi just hopes this isn't another thing ppl will get flamey about like systemd...

 10:29 <bluesabre> ideally, or we can ship it in xubuntu-default-settings... but yeah, implementation would be another question

 10:29 <bluesabre> we already have pkexec, just no supported apps :)

 10:29 <ochosi> heh

 10:30 <ochosi> any downsides to additionally bringing back gksu?

 10:30 <bluesabre> I see none, but there may be some arguments... we should discuss with #ubuntu-devel folks maybe?

 10:30 <slickymasterWork> http://pastebin.com/G2nGpEdt <- for xfce4-terminal

 10:31 <ochosi> hmm, either way... i think we can't come to a conclusive decision today. i'd prefer it if we could compile a list of apps to get an idea of the workload...

 10:31 <ochosi> bluesabre: good idae

 10:31 <ochosi> idea

 10:31 <bluesabre> right, that would be the best course of action :)

 10:31 <ochosi> #action ochosi to talk with folks in #ubuntu-devel about the upsides/downsides of gksu and pkexec and then inform the team

 10:31 * meetingology ochosi to talk with folks in #ubuntu-devel about the upsides/downsides of gksu and pkexec and then inform the team

 10:31 <bluesabre> thanks ochosi

 10:32 <ochosi> let's also do this though:

 10:32 <ochosi> somebody should send an email to the ML about collecting apps in question for pkexec

 10:32 <ochosi> ideally on a wikipage or something

 10:32 <ochosi> so users can also contribute

 10:32 <ochosi> we might not think of everything

 10:32 <ochosi> any volunteers for that task? :p

 10:33 <bluesabre> suppose I can take that action item

 10:33 * ochosi wants to move on to the team updates...

 10:33 <pleia2> thanks bluesabre :)

 10:33 <ochosi> thanks bluesabre

 10:34 <ochosi> #action bluesabre to set up a page on the ubuntu-wiki collecting apps that potentially need a pkexec profile and send an email to the list to get users to contribute to the list

 10:34 * meetingology bluesabre to set up a page on the ubuntu-wiki collecting apps that potentially need a pkexec profile and send an email to the list to get users to contribute to the list

 10:34 <ochosi> #topic Team updates

 10:34 <pleia2> #info The Marketing blueprint has been updated with plans for this cycle https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-marketing

 10:34 <ochosi> great

 10:34 <pleia2> if anyone else has ideas, feel free to let me know, but we're not being so ambitious this cycle :)

 10:34 <bluesabre> :)

 10:35 <ochosi> indeed :)

 10:35 <ochosi> it's ok to take a slower one ;)

 10:35 * pleia2 nods

 10:35 <ochosi> pleia2: so you've discussed the financials with knome for flyers and tees?

 10:35 <pleia2> ochosi: mostly

 10:35 <ochosi> cool

 10:35 <pleia2> we'll work out details as we move forward with actual ordering

 10:36 <slickymasterWork> #info bug #1299743 is now Fix Committed status

 10:36 <ubottu> bug 1299743 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "No options: "Show printers shared by other systems"" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299743

 10:36 <pleia2> lunch now

 10:36 <ochosi> bon appetit, pleia2

 10:36 <slickymasterWork> enjoy pleia2

 10:36 <bluesabre> seeya pleia2

 10:36 <bluesabre> #info bluesabre now has upload rights for the xubuntu packageset

 10:36 <slickymasterWork> congrats on that bluesabre

 10:37 <ochosi> \o/

 10:37 <bluesabre> #action bluesabre to review applications shipped by xubuntu to make sure they are in the xubuntu packageset (menulibre is not currently included)

 10:37 * meetingology bluesabre to review applications shipped by xubuntu to make sure they are in the xubuntu packageset (menulibre is not currently included)

 10:38 <ochosi> how're things looking for 14.04.1?

 10:38 <bluesabre> well, xfpm and lls are both in -updates now

 10:38 <ochosi> good

 10:38 <bluesabre> but I missed the fact that xubuntu-default-settings needed to be updated as well

 10:38 <bluesabre> so working on the SRU documentation for that

 10:39 <ochosi> if you're ok with it, we could take a shared action item for blogging about that bug, so that ppl know what is fixed and what isn't and how to make sure the fix works

 10:39 <bluesabre> menulibre and lightdm-gtk-greeter are stuck in limbo on their way to trusty-proposed, once that happens we can proceed with verification

 10:39 <bluesabre> ochosi: I'd be in favor of that

 10:39 <ochosi> i can draft it, but as all of this is a bit complex, review would be very necessary

 10:39 <bluesabre> right

 10:40 <ochosi> #action ochosi and bluesabre to work on blog posting for xubuntu.org about the resolved black screen bug (for 14.04.1)

 10:40 * meetingology ochosi and bluesabre to work on blog posting for xubuntu.org about the resolved black screen bug (for 14.04.1)

 10:40 <bluesabre> also, need to know if there is a freeze for 14.04.1

 10:40 <bluesabre> we're 9 days away (24th)

 10:40 <ochosi> humm, that's not too much time

 10:41 <bluesabre> nope

 10:41 <ochosi> let's hope there is none then ;)

 10:41 <ochosi> i guess that's not enough time for a separate action item anyway

 10:41 <bluesabre> and the SRU process dictates that packages have to sit in proposed for 7 day

 10:41 <bluesabre> s

 10:41 <ochosi> oh dear, that means 2 days or less for menulibre and greeter?

 10:41 <ochosi> (not even talking about the xdg-utils patch...)

 10:42 <bluesabre> yeah, gotta get these things moving if we want to fixes in the iso

 10:42 <ochosi> yeah, would be good, especially as all the 12.04->14.04 upgrades are visible for the first time with 14.04.1

 10:43 <ochosi> who of you has done a 12.04->14.04 upgrade?

 10:43 <bluesabre> o/

 10:43 <ochosi> would be nice to write up some of the things needed to do after that upgrade

 10:43 <slickymasterWork> o/

 10:43 <ochosi> something like "fixing indicators" etc

 10:43 <slickymasterWork> but mostly those were tests

 10:43 <ochosi> just a quick list that we can publish on the blog

 10:43 <bluesabre> sudo apt-get remove xscreensaver

 10:43 <ochosi> heh, yeah, stuff like that ^

 10:44 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: would you mind starting with a draft?

 10:44 <ochosi> then maybe also ask elfy to help on it

 10:44 <slickymasterWork> ok

 10:44 <ochosi> and then we can ask ppl on the team or whoever has done that upgrade to check whether something's missing

 10:44 <ochosi> cool, thanks slickymasterWork

 10:45 <ochosi> #action slickymaster to write up a draft for "things to do after a 12.04->14.04 upgrade"

 10:45 * meetingology slickymaster to write up a draft for "things to do after a 12.04->14.04 upgrade"

 10:45 <slickymasterWork> I'll ping elfy on it, because I mostly just made the upgrading tests and afterwards deleted those boxes

 10:45 <ochosi> sure

 10:45 <ochosi> okay, any other updates?

 10:45 <bluesabre> also, might do a mention that ppas are disabled on upgrade

 10:45 <ochosi> indeed

 10:46 * slickymasterWork agrees

 10:46 * ochosi hopes slickymasterWork is already taking notes

 10:46 <ochosi> :>

 10:46 * slickymasterWork will use the logs

 10:46 <bluesabre> xubuntu-dev ppas are growing steadily

 10:46 <ochosi> clever slickymasterWork

 10:46 <ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, wanna info a bit of that?

 10:46 <slickymasterWork> there's something I want to get by you guys

 10:47 <bluesabre> #info xubuntu-dev PPAs are growing with an increased number of packages for trusty and utopic - https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging - https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/extras

 10:47 <slickymasterWork> regarding the work that you both made on the Xfce Display Settings

 10:47 <bluesabre> go for it :)

 10:47 <slickymasterWork> do you want it to be included in the -docs?

 10:48 <bluesabre> Is there already a section for the display settings?

 10:48 <ochosi> would be nice, but otoh it's simply more intuitive than the old dialog

 10:49 <slickymasterWork> not specifically bluesabre

 10:49 <slickymasterWork> but it would probably fall in the Settings and Preferences chapter

 10:49 <bluesabre> ok, then as ochosi indicated, its probably not a necessity, we made it a lot more user friendly... but if you want to include it, I'm open to any questions you may have

 10:50 <ochosi> now it basically works like display dialogs in most other OSs

 10:50 <slickymasterWork> I'll dig a bit deeper on that to see if it's adequate

 10:50 <ochosi> sounds good, thanks slickymasterWork

 10:50 <bluesabre> ^

 10:50 <slickymasterWork> if not, then we'll just drop the idea

 10:50 <slickymasterWork> okie dokie

 10:51 <ochosi> anything else from your sides?

 10:51 <slickymasterWork> not from me

 10:51 <ochosi> #topic Discussion

 10:51 <ochosi> any discussion left? :)

 10:51 <bluesabre> did Noskcaj mention that xfce packages are now accepted under the MRE (micro release exceptions)?

 10:51 <ochosi> he did

 10:51 <slickymasterWork> the inxi issue is done with, right?

 10:51 <ochosi> bluesabre: that would be an announcement i guess

 10:52 <bluesabre> slickymasterWork: inxi will be included in the seed the next time the seed files are generated

 10:52 <slickymasterWork> I mean we're going to ship it

 10:52 <ochosi> #topic Announcements

 10:52 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: yup

 10:52 <slickymasterWork> you beat me

 10:52 <bluesabre> oh, slow down ochosi

 10:52 <slickymasterWork> :)

 10:52 <bluesabre> question: clutter in xubuntu

 10:52 <ochosi> #undo

 10:52 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC

 10:52 <bluesabre> *for parole

 10:52 <slickymasterWork> he starvating bluesabre ;)

 10:52 <ochosi> hehe

 10:53 <ochosi> bluesabre: do we know what clutter pulls in?

 10:53 <ochosi> package-wise

 10:53 <bluesabre> probably a mess

 10:53 <ochosi> i forgot what is all needed, was it just libclutter-gst-1.0-0 ?

 10:54 <bluesabre> I can verify that, but going forward, the x components will work decreasingly well over the next few releases as X support is pulled from gtk

 10:54 <ochosi> or gstreamer1.0-clutter?

 10:55 <bluesabre> I'll check on that later, not sure what recommends get pulled

 10:55 <ochosi> #action bluesabre to investigate what packages would be pulled in for being able to use Parole's clutter backend

 10:55 * meetingology bluesabre to investigate what packages would be pulled in for being able to use Parole's clutter backend

 10:55 <bluesabre> that'll do

 10:55 <bluesabre> :)

 10:55 <ochosi> cool

 10:56 * bluesabre leaves in 5 minutes

 10:56 <ochosi> ok, let's wrap it up then?

 10:56 <ochosi> #topic Announcements

 10:56 <slickymasterWork> I've got none

 10:57 <slickymasterWork> maybe next meeting schedule?

 10:57 <ochosi> #info Xfce packages are now accepted under the MRE (micro release exceptions). Thanks Jackson!

 10:57 <ochosi> #topic Schedule next meeting

 10:57 <ochosi> #action bluesabre is to set up the next meeting

 10:57 * meetingology bluesabre is to set up the next meeting

 10:57 <ochosi> :)

 10:57 <slickymasterWork> he he

 10:57 <bluesabre> oh boy

 10:58 <ochosi> that'll be fun

 10:58 <ochosi> okeydokey

 10:58 <ochosi> thanks everyone!

 10:58 <ochosi> #endmeeting



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