== Meeting information ==
 * #xubuntu-devel Meeting, 25 Jun at 10:00 — 11:00 UTC
 * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-06-25-10.00.log.html]]



== Meeting summary ==

=== Open action items ===
The discussion about "Open action items" started at 10:01.

 * '''Inxi''' (10:02)
  * ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Inxi 
  * ''ACTION:'' Unit193 to mail the devel list re inxi
 * '''Hexchat''' (10:09)
  * https://github.com/hexchat/hexchat/issues/1030
  * https://github.com/hexchat/hexchat/issues/1008
  * ''ACTION:'' ochosi To start pidgin/irc discussion on m/l
 * '''-core''' (10:28)
  * ''LINK:'' https://trello.com/c/nZWgYTb2/64-xubuntu-core-call 
  * ''ACTION:'' slickymaster Add core information to FAQ

=== Team Updates ===
The discussion about "Team Updates" started at 10:44.

  * Testing is very quiet, little action happening at all
  * ochosi is working towards replacing light-locker-settings with settings in xfce4-power-manager. Might or might not happen for 14.10 though.
  * bluesabre is preparing to apply for upload-rights to the xubuntu package-set
  * ''ACTION:'' Team leads should try to finalize their blueprints for Utopic until the next meeting (in two weeks) so the release-team can ack them.

=== Discussion ===
The discussion about "Discussion" started at 10:58.


=== Schedule next meeting ===
The discussion about "Schedule next meeting" started at 10:59.

  * ''ACTION:'' ochosi up to set the next meeting



== Vote results ==




== Action items, by person ==

 * ochosi
  * ochosi To start pidgin/irc discussion on m/l
  * ochosi up to set the next meeting
 * Unit193
  * Unit193 to mail the devel list re inxi
 * **UNASSIGNED**
  * slickymaster Add core information to FAQ
  * Team leads should try to finalize their blueprints for Utopic until the next meeting (in two weeks) so the release-team can ack them.



== Done items ==

 * (none)



== People present (lines said) ==

 * ochosi (113)
 * elfy (88)
 * Unit193 (34)
 * meetingology (9)
 * Noskcaj (9)
 * xubutrello (4)
 * ubottu (1)



== Full Log ==


 10:00 <elfy> #startmeeting

 10:00 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 25 10:00:55 2014 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 10:00 <meetingology> 

 10:00 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick

 10:01 <ochosi> !team | meeting time!

 10:01 <ubottu> meeting time!: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193

 10:01 <elfy> ok - so who is here

 10:01 <ochosi> o/

 10:01 <elfy> #chair elfy

 10:01 <meetingology> Current chairs: elfy

 10:01 <Noskcaj> o/

 10:01 <elfy> #topic Open action items

 10:02 <elfy> all we've got here are the 2 specs for Utopic

 10:02 <elfy> #subtopic Inxi

 10:02 <elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Inxi

 10:02 <ochosi> right, i'm in favor of adding it to the default seed

 10:02 <elfy> I am too

 10:02 <ochosi> it's not really heavy and might help a lot with debugging issues

 10:02 <ochosi> so in a way, it seems like a no-brainer to me

 10:03 <Unit193> Only bad thing is lm-sensors.

 10:03 <ochosi> that's a depend?

 10:03 <ochosi> or a recommend?

 10:03 <ochosi> what's the downside of lm-sensors (apart from it not working for every hardware)?

 10:04 <Noskcaj> +1 to inxi, although some of it's depends could use a merge from debian

 10:04 <elfy> ochosi: seems to be a recommends

 10:04 <ochosi> Noskcaj: which ones specifically and why?

 10:05 <Unit193> ochosi: Runs an init script (only sets, so it's a oneshot not daemon)

 10:05 <Unit193> Noskcaj: ...It's sync'd from Debian...

 10:06 <Noskcaj> ochosi, lm-sensors is near always a bugfix release behind debian. I'm not sure it's an issue though

 10:06 <ochosi> i see, any other downsides that should be taken into account?

 10:06 <Unit193> People use it wrong? :P

 10:07 <ochosi> heh

 10:07 <ochosi> fine, we need to write some docs for it, is what you're saying i guess

 10:07 <ochosi> add it to the FAQ or xubuntu-docs

 10:07 <ochosi> slickymaster: thoughts on this ^ ?

 10:08 <Unit193> FAQ, docs I think would be way overkill.

 10:08 <ochosi> ok, suggestion: email to the mailinglist about inxi to give ppl a final opportunity to raise concerns

 10:08 <elfy> I'd agree with Unit193

 10:08 <elfy> ochosi: yep - sounds good to me

 10:08 <ochosi> if there are no objections within a week, we add it to the seed

 10:09 <elfy> #action Unit193 to mail the devel list re inxi

 10:09 * meetingology Unit193 to mail the devel list re inxi

 10:09 <ochosi> Unit193: mind to write the email?

 10:09 <elfy> :p

 10:09 <ochosi> ah, heh, you're way ahead of me elfy :D

 10:09 <ochosi> (i think i said i have a laaaag here ;))

 10:09 <elfy> pardon?

 10:09 <elfy> :p

 10:09 <elfy> #subtopic Hexchat

 10:10 <elfy> so - while I'm generally in favour of us moving to hexchat from xchat - the 2 bugs I've reported for it are really quite annoying ;)

 10:10 <ochosi> right, i was originally simply in favor, i'd like to extend the scope of this discussion to s/xchat/pidgin/ for irc

 10:10 <elfy> 1 I reported, other was already reported at github

 10:10 <ochosi> what bugs exactly, elfy?

 10:10 <ochosi> (best #info them...)

 10:11 <elfy> #info https://github.com/hexchat/hexchat/issues/1030

 10:11 <elfy> #info https://github.com/hexchat/hexchat/issues/1008

 10:11 <ochosi> would you say those are blockers?

 10:12 <elfy> not sure tbh - xchat doesn't suffer from them

 10:13 <elfy> the window resizing issue has been marked as an enhancement - no idea what that means

 10:13 <ochosi> right, but what other advantages does hexchat offer over xchat (apart from being actively developed)?

 10:13 <ochosi> Unit193: ^

 10:13 <ochosi> elfy: i guess it means it's not really considered a bug ;)

 10:13 <Noskcaj> I dislike pidgin for irc, but as long as #xubuntu is accessible with it, there's not that much point to having an irc client default. If we do go to hexchat though, i'd like someone to investigate some more xubuntu style theming for it (which is supported upstream)

 10:13 <Unit193> I was sold at "SASL", and I don't use GUI clients so other than that.

 10:13 <Unit193> Noskcaj: Everyone does, it has "security" leaks too.

 10:13 <elfy> what's the point in having pidgin?

 10:13 <ochosi> IM in general i guess

 10:13 <Unit193> To have a reason for -messsages?

 10:14 <elfy> Unit193: lol

 10:14 <ochosi> i feel our default app set is pretty much made to mirror what ppl used to have in e.g. winxp

 10:14 <Unit193> Or, pidgin is for torchat.

 10:14 <ochosi> i'm fine with reviewing that and considering alternatives, we have a few cycles to experiment now (as we have non-LTS releases ahead)

 10:15 <elfy> yep

 10:15 <ochosi> so i'm fine with trying to move away from xchat

 10:15 <ochosi> and "seeing what happens"

 10:15 <elfy> personally pidgin is one of the apps I use to make sure that testcases are written right only

 10:15 <Unit193> Thought that was gmb...

 10:15 <elfy> one of the apps

 10:15 <ochosi> yeah, i never use either of them (pidgin, xchat)

 10:16 <Noskcaj> I've never used pidgin.

 10:16 <Noskcaj> Use hexchat a lot though

 10:16 <elfy> I used to use xchat - I use hexchat now - so having it would make life easier for me :)

 10:16 <ochosi> Noskcaj: what exactly did you mean with xubuntu styling btw?

 10:16 <ochosi> elfy: yeah, but you can still "have it" either way, we're really talking about the default for everybody...

 10:17 <elfy> yea I know ;)

 10:17 <ochosi> just sayin, that's a very common mixup

 10:17 <ochosi> s/we/i/ :)

 10:17 <Unit193> i're

 10:17 <ochosi> :)

 10:18 <elfy> If I was going to use one - I'd rather use the one that's actively being worked on

 10:18 <elfy> which is why *I* moved

 10:18 <Noskcaj> ochosi, The hexchat default colours are really ugly and there are ways to set new icons and new colours in the config files

 10:18 <Noskcaj> Just extra xubuntu-isation we can add

 10:18 <ochosi> Noskcaj: ok, i guess we can look into that once we've settled on hexchat

 10:19 <Noskcaj> ok

 10:19 <ochosi> so what i take away from the discussion up to now is that few of us here use pidgin, so we need to probably try it practically to see whether it could simply be enough by default for irc access

 10:19 <ochosi> could also be that others in or around the team have used it more

 10:19 <ochosi> iirc ali1234 and bluesabre used it

 10:20 <ochosi> imo we should investigate this a bit more and extend the specification to include pidgin

 10:22 <elfy> having an IM and an IRC tool doesn't really hurt us imo

 10:22 <ochosi> Unit193: well those are valid concerns (the ones just raised in -ot), but this is only about the average user who uses one channel to get support

 10:22 <Unit193> I was joking around...

 10:23 <elfy> ochosi: well if the discussion is about the average user looking for support - the majority of those people turn up with webchat

 10:23 <elfy> and need neither pidgin or (he)xchat

 10:23 <ochosi> yeah, i guess we link them to webchat in the installer, no?

 10:23 <ochosi> i wonder whether we can add a link there to open pidgin instead

 10:23 <Unit193> And embed on the site.

 10:23 <elfy> and on xubuntu.org

 10:24 <ochosi> or even add a link on xubuntu.org to use pidgin as alternative to webchat

 10:24 <ochosi> although i'm not sure either way whether that'd improve things for anybody :)

 10:24 <elfy> :)

 10:24 <ochosi> anywho, while "it doesn't hurt" it seems that users aren't using our irc app so much then

 10:25 <elfy> well - seems that the do we or don't we is the first discussion we need to have - then the hexchat one

 10:25 <ochosi> do we / don't we what?

 10:25 <elfy> have either

 10:26 <elfy> if we decide to only have pidgin any discussion on hexchat is pointless

 10:26 <ochosi> frankly, i guess i need to take those two apps for a spin to be able to seriously discuss them...

 10:26 <elfy> :)

 10:26 <ochosi> my input is not very experience-based

 10:27 <ochosi> so if you're fine with it, i'd like to carry this forward to the next meeting

 10:27 <elfy> yep

 10:27 <ochosi> give ppl more time to test the apps

 10:27 <elfy> needs to go to m/l I guess so people know we want that input

 10:27 <elfy> who's going to do that

 10:27 <Unit193> Not it.

 10:27 <ochosi> always the one who asks? :D

 10:28 <elfy> #action ochosi To start pidgin/irc discussion on m/l

 10:28 * meetingology ochosi To start pidgin/irc discussion on m/l

 10:28 <ochosi> heh, fine fine

 10:28 <elfy> thanks ochosi :)

 10:28 <ochosi> ok, so moving along, i'd like to quickly discuss -core

 10:28 <elfy> #subtopic -core

 10:29 <elfy> go ahead :)

 10:29 <ochosi> well we discussed -core a while ago, it was approved and the idea was it was going to be tested (which is why i merged it into our seed)

 10:29 <ochosi> so status update elfy/Unit193?

 10:30 <elfy> I'm waiting for a go really, but we have discussed it off and on over the last couple of weeks

 10:30 <elfy> though I will say that the chances of getting much testing done is slim even if we ask

 10:31 <ochosi> Unit193: ^ ?

 10:31 <ochosi> elfy: yeah, well actually starting with some testing by you would be quite valuable

 10:31 <elfy> yep

 10:31 <ochosi> as you're really experienced with testing, i'd tend to trust your feedback for shipping this initially

 10:31 <ochosi> it'll have to prove itself in real-word contexts then anyway

 10:32 <Unit193> ochosi, Kind of waiting on the seed changes for things to go, but we can do it now without the very slim version.  Yeah, I don't see a lot of testing happening either.

 10:32 <ochosi> s/word/world/

 10:32 <ochosi> it's not a huge problem though (slim testing), i think we can refine it until the next LTS

 10:32 <Unit193> Well, it's not like we're exactly shipping it.

 10:32 <ochosi> but without it being in the seed or an easy install option, it'll never get any testing

 10:32 <ochosi> so let's really move this along

 10:33 <ochosi> Unit193: what's needed exactly for the seed changes?

 10:33 <Unit193> ochosi, You can install it now with tasksel.

 10:34 <Unit193> ochosi, Remember, there was two ways to install, recommended and not so recommended. ;)

 10:34 <ochosi> right, is tasksel enough for you elfy?

 10:35 <elfy> probably

 10:35 <Unit193> ochosi, Also, for super slim, that'd need an xubuntu-meta upload.

 10:35 <ochosi> right, can you poke e.g. Logan_ or some other sponsor about that?

 10:35 <elfy> Unit193: if we liase on this before the next meeting we should have some sort of result

 10:35 <ochosi> i've merged it already, so it's approved, i guess it just needs a sponsoring request

 10:36 <Unit193> ochosi, After we add inxi and maybe hex?

 10:36 <ochosi> right, if hexchat takes longer though, i wouldn't wanna wait for that

 10:36 <Unit193> elfy, Sure?  Whatever works.

 10:36 <ochosi> it's not like we have to limit ourselves *so much* with uploads

 10:36 <Unit193> Well, get the one change in?

 10:36 <Unit193> ochosi, Since we have no uploaders that are active?  Kind of do.

 10:37 <ochosi> actually we got a lot of things sponsored last cycle

 10:37 <ochosi> i mean, *lots* of uploads

 10:37 <ochosi> i don't see us having that kinda throughput ahead this cycle

 10:37 <ochosi> simply look at how empty most of our blueprints are

 10:37 <elfy> yep

 10:38 <Unit193> Alright...

 10:38 <ochosi> so let's give it a week for inxi and then move along with inxi+core

 10:38 <ochosi> i mean for a xubuntu-meta upload

 10:38 <ochosi> elfy: can you take this down in trello plz?

 10:39 <Unit193> xubutrello: card 64 link

 10:39 <xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/nZWgYTb2/64-xubuntu-core-call

 10:39 <ochosi> uuh, the trellobot magician enters the stage :)

 10:40 <elfy> added a card for inxi

 10:41 <ochosi> ty

 10:41 <elfy> anything else for -core ?

 10:41 <ochosi> no, i guess we just need to make sure to move this along

 10:42 <ochosi> i really want it in 14.10

 10:42 <elfy> ok - moving on then ?

 10:42 <Unit193> It's already in. :P

 10:42 <Unit193> Yes, please.

 10:42 <ochosi> actually one more thing, "somebody" should add an FAQ entry for it

 10:42 <elfy> for -xore?

 10:42 <ochosi> yup

 10:42 <elfy> awesome typo lol

 10:42 <ochosi> :)

 10:42 <Unit193> If it's words, I'm a bad idea.

 10:43 <elfy> doc guy then :)

 10:43 <ochosi> :)

 10:43 <elfy> #action slickymaster Add core information to FAQ

 10:43 * meetingology slickymaster Add core information to FAQ

 10:43 <ochosi> yeah, let's add another trello card for that (or a comment to the -core trello card)

 10:44 <elfy> added that to existing card - added docs label

 10:44 <ochosi> ty

 10:44 <elfy> #topic Team Updates

 10:45 <elfy> #info Testing is very quiet, little action happening at all

 10:45 <elfy> but again that's not just us :)

 10:45 <Unit193> I ran a quick, live only testcase.

 10:45 <ochosi> #info ochosi is working towards replacing light-locker-settings with settings in xfce4-power-manager. Might or might not happen for 14.10 though.

 10:46 <elfy> yea - I've done a few lives/installs in vm

 10:46 <elfy> not sure we'll get more team updates then :)

 10:46 <ochosi> so how're things?

 10:46 <ochosi> i mean in a live session?

 10:47 <elfy> the odd syslinux bug is gone atm

 10:47 <ochosi> iirc we still have a few blockers ahead (that also affect debian), like upower0.99

 10:47 <ochosi> but i guess upower hasn't been updated yet?

 10:47 <elfy> 0.9.23-2ubun here

 10:48 <ochosi> yup, that's the old one then

 10:48 <ochosi> i think mostly xfce4-session is blocking upower0.99 atm

 10:48 <ochosi> systemd still hasn't happened i presume?

 10:49 <elfy> I think that we can safely forget about systemd happening default this cycle at least

 10:49 <ochosi> right

 10:49 <ochosi> less problems ahead then i gues

 10:49 <ochosi> s

 10:49 <Unit193> Mhmm, still can have fun with it. :P  (Just not too much, gone there myself.)

 10:49 <elfy> I run it - only had one issue with it - nvidia-prime update fails each time

 10:49 <ochosi> btw, has anybody looked at xwayland or xmir at all?

 10:50 <elfy> not here

 10:50 <ochosi> #info bluesabre is preparing to apply for upload-rights to the xubuntu package-set

 10:51 <Unit193> \o/

 10:51 <elfy> \o/

 10:51 <elfy> ha

 10:51 <ochosi> :)

 10:52 <elfy> anything else?

 10:52 <Unit193> Due dates?

 10:53 <elfy> are there any?

 10:53 <ochosi> not sure, Unit193 ?

 10:54 <elfy> I'll be calling next week for the next package test set

 10:54 <Unit193> Hah: June 19th :FeatureDefinitionFreeze

 10:55 <Unit193> xubutrello: due soon

 10:55 <xubutrello> ->  1. Suite C call (id: 17) due: 2014-06-30 11:00:00 UTC from list: To Do 14.10

 10:55 <xubutrello> ->  2. add inxi to seed then xubuntu-meta upload  (id: 77) due: 2014-07-03 11:00:00 UTC from list: To Do 14.10

 10:55 <xubutrello> ->  3. Check Suite C testcases (id: 75) due: 2014-06-26 11:00:00 UTC from list: Doing 14.10

 10:55 <ochosi> yeah, even if we don't care about that freeze, i guess it's a good point

 10:55 <ochosi> we should really work towards finalizing our blueprints/trello-cards

 10:56 <elfy> ochosi: are you going to do what knome did re blueprints - eg grab team leads and check?

 10:56 <elfy> should be pretty easy this cycle I guess

 10:56 <ochosi> yeah

 10:57 <elfy> do I need to action it?

 10:57 <ochosi> i think i'd want the release team to ack them

 10:57 <elfy> that makes sense

 10:57 <ochosi> #action Team leads should try to finalize their blueprints for Utopic until the next meeting (in two weeks) so the release-team can ack them.

 10:57 * meetingology Team leads should try to finalize their blueprints for Utopic until the next meeting (in two weeks) so the release-team can ack them.

 10:58 <ochosi> we can always grant exceptions if ppl aren't ready until then, but we should really try to get out of the post-LTS depression/lethargy :)

 10:58 <elfy> :)

 10:58 <elfy> ok - so moving along so Unit193 can not sleep ?

 10:58 <ochosi> heh

 10:58 <ochosi> yeah

 10:58 <ochosi> i guess i also have to take off

 10:58 <elfy> #topic Discussion

 10:59 <elfy> is there anything here - or did we just do that :p

 10:59 <elfy> taking that as a no

 10:59 <elfy> #topic Schedule next meeting

 11:00 <elfy> #action ochosi up to set the next meeting

 11:00 * meetingology ochosi up to set the next meeting

 11:00 <elfy> #endmeeting



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