10:00 <elfy> #startmeeting
10:00 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 25 10:00:55 2014 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
10:00 <meetingology> 
10:00 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
10:01 <ochosi> !team | meeting time!
10:01 <ubottu> meeting time!: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
10:01 <elfy> ok - so who is here
10:01 <ochosi> o/
10:01 <elfy> #chair elfy
10:01 <meetingology> Current chairs: elfy
10:01 <Noskcaj> o/
10:01 <elfy> #topic Open action items
10:02 <elfy> all we've got here are the 2 specs for Utopic
10:02 <elfy> #subtopic Inxi
10:02 <elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Inxi
10:02 <ochosi> right, i'm in favor of adding it to the default seed
10:02 <elfy> I am too
10:02 <ochosi> it's not really heavy and might help a lot with debugging issues
10:02 <ochosi> so in a way, it seems like a no-brainer to me
10:03 <Unit193> Only bad thing is lm-sensors.
10:03 <ochosi> that's a depend?
10:03 <ochosi> or a recommend?
10:03 <ochosi> what's the downside of lm-sensors (apart from it not working for every hardware)?
10:04 <Noskcaj> +1 to inxi, although some of it's depends could use a merge from debian
10:04 <elfy> ochosi: seems to be a recommends
10:04 <ochosi> Noskcaj: which ones specifically and why?
10:05 <Unit193> ochosi: Runs an init script (only sets, so it's a oneshot not daemon)
10:05 <Unit193> Noskcaj: ...It's sync'd from Debian...
10:06 <Noskcaj> ochosi, lm-sensors is near always a bugfix release behind debian. I'm not sure it's an issue though
10:06 <ochosi> i see, any other downsides that should be taken into account?
10:06 <Unit193> People use it wrong? :P
10:07 <ochosi> heh
10:07 <ochosi> fine, we need to write some docs for it, is what you're saying i guess
10:07 <ochosi> add it to the FAQ or xubuntu-docs
10:07 <ochosi> slickymaster: thoughts on this ^ ?
10:08 <Unit193> FAQ, docs I think would be way overkill.
10:08 <ochosi> ok, suggestion: email to the mailinglist about inxi to give ppl a final opportunity to raise concerns
10:08 <elfy> I'd agree with Unit193
10:08 <elfy> ochosi: yep - sounds good to me
10:08 <ochosi> if there are no objections within a week, we add it to the seed
10:09 <elfy> #action Unit193 to mail the devel list re inxi
10:09 * meetingology Unit193 to mail the devel list re inxi
10:09 <ochosi> Unit193: mind to write the email?
10:09 <elfy> :p
10:09 <ochosi> ah, heh, you're way ahead of me elfy :D
10:09 <ochosi> (i think i said i have a laaaag here ;))
10:09 <elfy> pardon?
10:09 <elfy> :p
10:09 <elfy> #subtopic Hexchat
10:10 <elfy> so - while I'm generally in favour of us moving to hexchat from xchat - the 2 bugs I've reported for it are really quite annoying ;)
10:10 <ochosi> right, i was originally simply in favor, i'd like to extend the scope of this discussion to s/xchat/pidgin/ for irc
10:10 <elfy> 1 I reported, other was already reported at github
10:10 <ochosi> what bugs exactly, elfy?
10:10 <ochosi> (best #info them...)
10:11 <elfy> #info https://github.com/hexchat/hexchat/issues/1030
10:11 <elfy> #info https://github.com/hexchat/hexchat/issues/1008
10:11 <ochosi> would you say those are blockers?
10:12 <elfy> not sure tbh - xchat doesn't suffer from them
10:13 <elfy> the window resizing issue has been marked as an enhancement - no idea what that means
10:13 <ochosi> right, but what other advantages does hexchat offer over xchat (apart from being actively developed)?
10:13 <ochosi> Unit193: ^
10:13 <ochosi> elfy: i guess it means it's not really considered a bug ;)
10:13 <Noskcaj> I dislike pidgin for irc, but as long as #xubuntu is accessible with it, there's not that much point to having an irc client default. If we do go to hexchat though, i'd like someone to investigate some more xubuntu style theming for it (which is supported upstream)
10:13 <Unit193> I was sold at "SASL", and I don't use GUI clients so other than that.
10:13 <Unit193> Noskcaj: Everyone does, it has "security" leaks too.
10:13 <elfy> what's the point in having pidgin?
10:13 <ochosi> IM in general i guess
10:13 <Unit193> To have a reason for -messsages?
10:14 <elfy> Unit193: lol
10:14 <ochosi> i feel our default app set is pretty much made to mirror what ppl used to have in e.g. winxp
10:14 <Unit193> Or, pidgin is for torchat.
10:14 <ochosi> i'm fine with reviewing that and considering alternatives, we have a few cycles to experiment now (as we have non-LTS releases ahead)
10:15 <elfy> yep
10:15 <ochosi> so i'm fine with trying to move away from xchat
10:15 <ochosi> and "seeing what happens"
10:15 <elfy> personally pidgin is one of the apps I use to make sure that testcases are written right only
10:15 <Unit193> Thought that was gmb...
10:15 <elfy> one of the apps
10:15 <ochosi> yeah, i never use either of them (pidgin, xchat)
10:16 <Noskcaj> I've never used pidgin.
10:16 <Noskcaj> Use hexchat a lot though
10:16 <elfy> I used to use xchat - I use hexchat now - so having it would make life easier for me :)
10:16 <ochosi> Noskcaj: what exactly did you mean with xubuntu styling btw?
10:16 <ochosi> elfy: yeah, but you can still "have it" either way, we're really talking about the default for everybody...
10:17 <elfy> yea I know ;)
10:17 <ochosi> just sayin, that's a very common mixup
10:17 <ochosi> s/we/i/ :)
10:17 <Unit193> i're
10:17 <ochosi> :)
10:18 <elfy> If I was going to use one - I'd rather use the one that's actively being worked on
10:18 <elfy> which is why *I* moved
10:18 <Noskcaj> ochosi, The hexchat default colours are really ugly and there are ways to set new icons and new colours in the config files
10:18 <Noskcaj> Just extra xubuntu-isation we can add
10:18 <ochosi> Noskcaj: ok, i guess we can look into that once we've settled on hexchat
10:19 <Noskcaj> ok
10:19 <ochosi> so what i take away from the discussion up to now is that few of us here use pidgin, so we need to probably try it practically to see whether it could simply be enough by default for irc access
10:19 <ochosi> could also be that others in or around the team have used it more
10:19 <ochosi> iirc ali1234 and bluesabre used it
10:20 <ochosi> imo we should investigate this a bit more and extend the specification to include pidgin
10:22 <elfy> having an IM and an IRC tool doesn't really hurt us imo
10:22 <ochosi> Unit193: well those are valid concerns (the ones just raised in -ot), but this is only about the average user who uses one channel to get support
10:22 <Unit193> I was joking around...
10:23 <elfy> ochosi: well if the discussion is about the average user looking for support - the majority of those people turn up with webchat
10:23 <elfy> and need neither pidgin or (he)xchat
10:23 <ochosi> yeah, i guess we link them to webchat in the installer, no?
10:23 <ochosi> i wonder whether we can add a link there to open pidgin instead
10:23 <Unit193> And embed on the site.
10:23 <elfy> and on xubuntu.org
10:24 <ochosi> or even add a link on xubuntu.org to use pidgin as alternative to webchat
10:24 <ochosi> although i'm not sure either way whether that'd improve things for anybody :)
10:24 <elfy> :)
10:24 <ochosi> anywho, while "it doesn't hurt" it seems that users aren't using our irc app so much then
10:25 <elfy> well - seems that the do we or don't we is the first discussion we need to have - then the hexchat one
10:25 <ochosi> do we / don't we what?
10:25 <elfy> have either
10:26 <elfy> if we decide to only have pidgin any discussion on hexchat is pointless
10:26 <ochosi> frankly, i guess i need to take those two apps for a spin to be able to seriously discuss them...
10:26 <elfy> :)
10:26 <ochosi> my input is not very experience-based
10:27 <ochosi> so if you're fine with it, i'd like to carry this forward to the next meeting
10:27 <elfy> yep
10:27 <ochosi> give ppl more time to test the apps
10:27 <elfy> needs to go to m/l I guess so people know we want that input
10:27 <elfy> who's going to do that
10:27 <Unit193> Not it.
10:27 <ochosi> always the one who asks? :D
10:28 <elfy> #action ochosi To start pidgin/irc discussion on m/l
10:28 * meetingology ochosi To start pidgin/irc discussion on m/l
10:28 <ochosi> heh, fine fine
10:28 <elfy> thanks ochosi :)
10:28 <ochosi> ok, so moving along, i'd like to quickly discuss -core
10:28 <elfy> #subtopic -core
10:29 <elfy> go ahead :)
10:29 <ochosi> well we discussed -core a while ago, it was approved and the idea was it was going to be tested (which is why i merged it into our seed)
10:29 <ochosi> so status update elfy/Unit193?
10:30 <elfy> I'm waiting for a go really, but we have discussed it off and on over the last couple of weeks
10:30 <elfy> though I will say that the chances of getting much testing done is slim even if we ask
10:31 <ochosi> Unit193: ^ ?
10:31 <ochosi> elfy: yeah, well actually starting with some testing by you would be quite valuable
10:31 <elfy> yep
10:31 <ochosi> as you're really experienced with testing, i'd tend to trust your feedback for shipping this initially
10:31 <ochosi> it'll have to prove itself in real-word contexts then anyway
10:32 <Unit193> ochosi, Kind of waiting on the seed changes for things to go, but we can do it now without the very slim version.  Yeah, I don't see a lot of testing happening either.
10:32 <ochosi> s/word/world/
10:32 <ochosi> it's not a huge problem though (slim testing), i think we can refine it until the next LTS
10:32 <Unit193> Well, it's not like we're exactly shipping it.
10:32 <ochosi> but without it being in the seed or an easy install option, it'll never get any testing
10:32 <ochosi> so let's really move this along
10:33 <ochosi> Unit193: what's needed exactly for the seed changes?
10:33 <Unit193> ochosi, You can install it now with tasksel.
10:34 <Unit193> ochosi, Remember, there was two ways to install, recommended and not so recommended. ;)
10:34 <ochosi> right, is tasksel enough for you elfy?
10:35 <elfy> probably
10:35 <Unit193> ochosi, Also, for super slim, that'd need an xubuntu-meta upload.
10:35 <ochosi> right, can you poke e.g. Logan_ or some other sponsor about that?
10:35 <elfy> Unit193: if we liase on this before the next meeting we should have some sort of result
10:35 <ochosi> i've merged it already, so it's approved, i guess it just needs a sponsoring request
10:36 <Unit193> ochosi, After we add inxi and maybe hex?
10:36 <ochosi> right, if hexchat takes longer though, i wouldn't wanna wait for that
10:36 <Unit193> elfy, Sure?  Whatever works.
10:36 <ochosi> it's not like we have to limit ourselves *so much* with uploads
10:36 <Unit193> Well, get the one change in?
10:36 <Unit193> ochosi, Since we have no uploaders that are active?  Kind of do.
10:37 <ochosi> actually we got a lot of things sponsored last cycle
10:37 <ochosi> i mean, *lots* of uploads
10:37 <ochosi> i don't see us having that kinda throughput ahead this cycle
10:37 <ochosi> simply look at how empty most of our blueprints are
10:37 <elfy> yep
10:38 <Unit193> Alright...
10:38 <ochosi> so let's give it a week for inxi and then move along with inxi+core
10:38 <ochosi> i mean for a xubuntu-meta upload
10:38 <ochosi> elfy: can you take this down in trello plz?
10:39 <Unit193> xubutrello: card 64 link
10:39 <xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/nZWgYTb2/64-xubuntu-core-call
10:39 <ochosi> uuh, the trellobot magician enters the stage :)
10:40 <elfy> added a card for inxi
10:41 <ochosi> ty
10:41 <elfy> anything else for -core ?
10:41 <ochosi> no, i guess we just need to make sure to move this along
10:42 <ochosi> i really want it in 14.10
10:42 <elfy> ok - moving on then ?
10:42 <Unit193> It's already in. :P
10:42 <Unit193> Yes, please.
10:42 <ochosi> actually one more thing, "somebody" should add an FAQ entry for it
10:42 <elfy> for -xore?
10:42 <ochosi> yup
10:42 <elfy> awesome typo lol
10:42 <ochosi> :)
10:42 <Unit193> If it's words, I'm a bad idea.
10:43 <elfy> doc guy then :)
10:43 <ochosi> :)
10:43 <elfy> #action slickymaster Add core information to FAQ
10:43 * meetingology slickymaster Add core information to FAQ
10:43 <ochosi> yeah, let's add another trello card for that (or a comment to the -core trello card)
10:44 <elfy> added that to existing card - added docs label
10:44 <ochosi> ty
10:44 <elfy> #topic Team Updates
10:45 <elfy> #info Testing is very quiet, little action happening at all
10:45 <elfy> but again that's not just us :)
10:45 <Unit193> I ran a quick, live only testcase.
10:45 <ochosi> #info ochosi is working towards replacing light-locker-settings with settings in xfce4-power-manager. Might or might not happen for 14.10 though.
10:46 <elfy> yea - I've done a few lives/installs in vm
10:46 <elfy> not sure we'll get more team updates then :)
10:46 <ochosi> so how're things?
10:46 <ochosi> i mean in a live session?
10:47 <elfy> the odd syslinux bug is gone atm
10:47 <ochosi> iirc we still have a few blockers ahead (that also affect debian), like upower0.99
10:47 <ochosi> but i guess upower hasn't been updated yet?
10:47 <elfy> 0.9.23-2ubun here
10:48 <ochosi> yup, that's the old one then
10:48 <ochosi> i think mostly xfce4-session is blocking upower0.99 atm
10:48 <ochosi> systemd still hasn't happened i presume?
10:49 <elfy> I think that we can safely forget about systemd happening default this cycle at least
10:49 <ochosi> right
10:49 <ochosi> less problems ahead then i gues
10:49 <ochosi> s
10:49 <Unit193> Mhmm, still can have fun with it. :P  (Just not too much, gone there myself.)
10:49 <elfy> I run it - only had one issue with it - nvidia-prime update fails each time
10:49 <ochosi> btw, has anybody looked at xwayland or xmir at all?
10:50 <elfy> not here
10:50 <ochosi> #info bluesabre is preparing to apply for upload-rights to the xubuntu package-set
10:51 <Unit193> \o/
10:51 <elfy> \o/
10:51 <elfy> ha
10:51 <ochosi> :)
10:52 <elfy> anything else?
10:52 <Unit193> Due dates?
10:53 <elfy> are there any?
10:53 <ochosi> not sure, Unit193 ?
10:54 <elfy> I'll be calling next week for the next package test set
10:54 <Unit193> Hah: June 19th :FeatureDefinitionFreeze
10:55 <Unit193> xubutrello: due soon
10:55 <xubutrello> ->  1. Suite C call (id: 17) due: 2014-06-30 11:00:00 UTC from list: To Do 14.10
10:55 <xubutrello> ->  2. add inxi to seed then xubuntu-meta upload  (id: 77) due: 2014-07-03 11:00:00 UTC from list: To Do 14.10
10:55 <xubutrello> ->  3. Check Suite C testcases (id: 75) due: 2014-06-26 11:00:00 UTC from list: Doing 14.10
10:55 <ochosi> yeah, even if we don't care about that freeze, i guess it's a good point
10:55 <ochosi> we should really work towards finalizing our blueprints/trello-cards
10:56 <elfy> ochosi: are you going to do what knome did re blueprints - eg grab team leads and check?
10:56 <elfy> should be pretty easy this cycle I guess
10:56 <ochosi> yeah
10:57 <elfy> do I need to action it?
10:57 <ochosi> i think i'd want the release team to ack them
10:57 <elfy> that makes sense
10:57 <ochosi> #action Team leads should try to finalize their blueprints for Utopic until the next meeting (in two weeks) so the release-team can ack them.
10:57 * meetingology Team leads should try to finalize their blueprints for Utopic until the next meeting (in two weeks) so the release-team can ack them.
10:58 <ochosi> we can always grant exceptions if ppl aren't ready until then, but we should really try to get out of the post-LTS depression/lethargy :)
10:58 <elfy> :)
10:58 <elfy> ok - so moving along so Unit193 can not sleep ?
10:58 <ochosi> heh
10:58 <ochosi> yeah
10:58 <ochosi> i guess i also have to take off
10:58 <elfy> #topic Discussion
10:59 <elfy> is there anything here - or did we just do that :p
10:59 <elfy> taking that as a no
10:59 <elfy> #topic Schedule next meeting
11:00 <elfy> #action ochosi up to set the next meeting
11:00 * meetingology ochosi up to set the next meeting
11:00 <elfy> #endmeeting