== Meeting information == * #xubuntu-devel: Xubuntu community meeting, 30 Jan at 18:59 — 20:01 UTC * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-01-30-18.59.log.html]] == Meeting summary == === Open action items from previous meeting === The discussion about "Open action items from previous meeting" started at 19:02. * ''ACTION:'' ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status * ''ACTION:'' elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily * ''ACTION:'' knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position * ''ACTION:'' knome to send an email to the mailing list re: bluetooth * ''ACTION:'' ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back * ''ACTION:'' team members that are able to test/use bluetooth stuff, consider which software they would like to use, if it matters === Team updates === The discussion about "Team updates" started at 19:06. * knome updated the meetings page with the new structure * slickymaster finished Mugshot's online documentation -> http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs * Image testing for the last 7 days -> 64 bit image tests 3, no 32 bit tests reported * Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 64 bit 13.10 to 14.04 5 reported for update manager upgrading, no tests from image * Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 64 bit lts to lts 5 reported for update manager upgrading, 3 reported for image update * Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 32 bit 13.10 to 14.04 2 reported for update manager upgrading, no tests from image * Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 32 bit lts to lts 2 reported for update manager upgrading, none reported for image update * Settings Manager test call out soon - includes light-locker * knome looked into the docs SRU and the new, fixed package (thanks bluesabre) should land in precise any day. * Manual testcase continues prior to calls * knome, ochosi and pleia2 held a meeting and selected the winners for the community wallpapers * knome did housecleaning on the blueprints * mugshot in debian NEW * menulibre updated * parole 0.6 in ubuntu repos * slickymaster started to work on migrating Mugshot documentation into docbook format * Noskcaj updated gthumb to 3.3 * Unit193 sent a message to the list about the xubuntu-core meta. * lderan made a list of apps that can be ran simple "does it open" tests with autopilot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6840722/ * ''ACTION:'' ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues === Announcements === The discussion about "Announcements" started at 19:28. * Documentation checkup meeting on Wednesday, Feb 5 at 19UTC === Agenda === The discussion about "Agenda" started at 19:37. * '''Enabling more people to push to Xubuntu branches (separate branches team, or would -team do?)''' (19:37) * ''ACTION:'' micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches * if we need packageset uploader rights for certain people later, we shall ask DMB to create a new team for that purpose * '''Status of Bluetooth in Xubuntu; what kind of testing we want to run, which software we want to use?''' (19:46) * ''LINK:'' http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=700863 * '''Discuss documentation translations''' (19:57) * ''ACTION:'' Someone with bluetooth to write a testcase === Schedule next meeting === The discussion about "Schedule next meeting" started at 20:00. * Next meeting Thursday, Feb 6, 19UTC == Vote results == == Action items == * ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status * elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily * knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position * knome to send an email to the mailing list re: bluetooth * ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back * team members that are able to test/use bluetooth stuff, consider which software they would like to use, if it matters * ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues * micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches * Someone with bluetooth to write a testcase == Action items, by person == * ali1234 * ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status * ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues * elfy * elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily * knome * knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position * knome to send an email to the mailing list re: bluetooth * micahg * ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues * micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches * Noskcaj * elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily * team * team members that are able to test/use bluetooth stuff, consider which software they would like to use, if it matters * **UNASSIGNED** * ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back * Someone with bluetooth to write a testcase == People present (lines said) == * knome (135) * micahg-work (39) * ali1234 (25) * Noskcaj (23) * elfy (18) * meetingology (15) * slickymaster (11) * cyphermox (7) * Unit193 (6) * jjfrv8-work (5) * brainwash (5) * ubottu (3) * pleia2 (3) * micahg (0) * team (0) == Full Log == 18:59 #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting 18:59 Meeting started Thu Jan 30 18:59:47 2014 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 18:59 18:59 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 18:59 so who's here for the meeting 19:00 o/ 19:00 o/ 19:00 o/ 19:01 yep 19:01 ok, cool 19:01 let me get my act together :d 19:01 !team | meeting time 19:01 meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193 19:02 #topic Open action items from previous meeting 19:02 #action ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status 19:02 * meetingology ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status 19:02 #action elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily 19:02 * meetingology elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily 19:02 did that happen? 19:02 again already? 19:02 where does the time go? 19:02 ali1234, shoo :P 19:02 poked and nothing happened 19:02 keeping it carried on to make sure things happen 19:03 o/ 19:03 #action knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position 19:03 * meetingology knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position 19:03 still TBD 19:04 #action knome to send an email to the mailing list re: bluetooth 19:04 * meetingology knome to send an email to the mailing list re: bluetooth 19:04 TBD 19:04 #action ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back 19:04 * meetingology ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back 19:04 #action ~QA to write tests for new packages, sync to tracker and call for testing 19:04 * meetingology ~QA to write tests for new packages, sync to tracker and call for testing 19:04 elfy, want to carry that on? 19:04 well it's ongoing 19:05 i ask you a simple yes/no question and you start with "well..." ;) 19:05 well ... 19:05 yes 19:05 do you need a weekly reminder? 19:05 no 19:05 ok 19:05 haha, so dropping it then :P 19:05 #undo 19:05 Removing item from minutes: 19:05 ok :p 19:05 #action team members that are able to test/use bluetooth stuff, consider which software they would like to use, if it matters 19:05 * meetingology team members that are able to test/use bluetooth stuff, consider which software they would like to use, if it matters 19:05 #nick team 19:05 that's it. 19:06 #topic Team updates 19:06 please use #info and #action (for new action items) as appropriate 19:06 lderan, autopilot 19:06 Unit193, -core email 19:06 #info knome updated the meetings page with the new structure 19:06 #info slickymaster finished Mugshot's online documentation -> http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs 19:07 #info Image testing for the last 7 days -> 64 bit image tests 3, no 32 bit tests reported 19:07 #info Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 64 bit 13.10 to 14.04 5 reported for update manager upgrading, no tests from image 19:07 #info Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 64 bit lts to lts 5 reported for update manager upgrading, 3 reported for image update 19:07 #info Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 32 bit 13.10 to 14.04 2 reported for update manager upgrading, no tests from image 19:07 #info Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 32 bit lts to lts 2 reported for update manager upgrading, none reported for image update 19:07 #info Settings Manager test call out soon - includes light-locker 19:07 #info knome looked into the docs SRU and the new, fixed package (thanks bluesabre) should land in precise any day. 19:07 #info Manual testcase continues prior to calls 19:07 ali1234, news about gtk3 indicators? 19:08 #info knome, ochosi and pleia2 held a meeting and selected the winners for the community wallpapers 19:08 some changes were pushed to the indicators but still no fix to the core library problems afaik 19:08 #info knome did housecleaning on the blueprints 19:08 ali1234, ok, cheers 19:08 #info mugshot in debian NEW 19:08 #info menulibre updated 19:09 #info parole 0.6 in ubuntu repos 19:09 Noskcaj, i'd appreciate "#info Noskcaj did ..." (easier for the team reports) 19:09 ok. 19:09 it's looking a lot like we'll have to wait until feature freeze and then demand it's either fixed or rolled back 19:09 #info slickymaster started to work on migrating Mugshot documentation into docbook format 19:09 #info Noskcaj updated gthumb to 3.3 19:09 ali1234, but new "features" are in already, just broken? 19:10 ali1234, does the current gtk3 indicator stack need to be uploaded to the archive still or is that waiting on fixes? 19:10 micahg-work: there is nothing new on our side. the problems all exist in the unity stack 19:10 knome: Yes? 19:10 knome: the new features are in some packages and not others 19:10 Unit193, please #info that you actually did something! 19:11 that mismatch is half the problem 19:11 ali1234, okay. then we should get the new features in before FF if at all possible (there's still time) 19:11 ali1234, but other than that, FF shouldn't be the hard deadline for the fixes, and i'm optimistic of landing those fixes 19:11 i don't know the status of stuff like xfce4-panel actually 19:11 I uploaded 2 SRUs, but I don't remember which ones 19:12 we can't land any fixes in libindicator3 for example, that is what is currently broken 19:12 and it is broken in unity too, still 19:12 #info Unit193 sent a message to the list about the xubuntu-core meta. 19:12 ali1234, is there a summary of the issues somewhere (or list of bugs) 19:12 #info lderan made a list of apps that can be ran simple "does it open" tests with autopilot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6840722/ 19:13 micahg-work: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-network/+bug/1185565 and https://code.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/libindicator/remove-timeout/+merge/198070 19:13 Launchpad bug 1185565 in libindicator "Indicators should have Upstart jobs" [Medium,Confirmed] 19:13 ali1234, micahg-work: if you don't mind, i'll add an action item for you to follow up on it and actually fix the stupid issues 19:13 #action ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues 19:13 * meetingology ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues 19:13 #nick micahg 19:13 i already sent a MR, there's nothing more i can do until tedg gets around to fixing it 19:14 ali1234, poke tedg and ask if he has time to review or can hand off to someone else 19:14 i'm poking him once a week already 19:14 micahg-work, any possibility you could oversee how that goes? would be good to have more people on top of the issue 19:15 i've spoken to him several times about this already and it's always "yeah, i'm working on it" 19:15 he knows and understands the problems we face 19:16 well, that's great, but I don't see why an MR should go 8 weeks without a review 19:16 * micahg-work <-- pot 19:16 because it's part of a much bigger change, basically 19:17 yes, but there are ways to move these things forward, maybe it should be merged into a branch instead 19:17 there are a bunch of other issues around this too, like under xubuntu it wont actually use upstart to launch indicators, because it's hardcoded to only do that in unity 19:17 looking at the bug, not everybody agrees with what is going on 19:17 knome: right 19:17 that's a problem too 19:18 i guess we're fine to do weekly reminders for a few more weeks 19:18 if things do not progress, look at it again then 19:18 sorry about that. I'm back. 19:18 i guess another thing you could try, ali1234, is add more reviewers for the MP. 19:18 jjfrv8-work, np :) 19:19 rewriting the indicator stack for the LTS seems so wrong... 19:19 right, this is why i mentioned FF and either fix NOW or rollback 19:19 yeah 19:20 as long as gtk3 indicators work for us, i don't mind how this falls 19:20 we can always add the workaround to the environment 19:20 ali1234, micahg-work: please obey the action item and follow up on it as much as needed :) 19:20 and i'm of course also available, if you need something i can do to help. 19:21 maybe we could already switch to gtk3 indicators and use the workaround (exporting an env var) 19:22 wait, we're still on GTK2 indicators? 19:22 since FF is still somewhat far, i don't think it makes sense to push a workaround and then start using the new "real" fix 19:22 agreed 19:22 but it's always there if we need it 19:22 the workaround can be reverted easily 19:22 rather wait until the FF, and if the situation *then* looks stupid, do the workaround 19:22 ok 19:22 brainwash, it's still more work to get the workaround up than not. 19:22 micahg-work: i'm not sure what is actually in the archive, because i work mainly upstream 19:23 ok 19:23 we have to believe things are going to be fixed eventually 19:23 micahg-work, i've got the stuff in a PPA, but i'd rather wait for a real release to upload stuff 19:23 yes, Noskcaj's PPA + workaround works fine 19:23 archive is all possible 4.11 stuff + garcon git snapshot 19:24 while I generally prefer that, we need baketime for the LTS, now if it'll just be broken in the archive, there's no point in uploading 19:24 it's not as badly broken as gtk2 indicators... 19:24 well exactly, my opinion is: hold until nearer to FF 19:25 and see if things are fixed and then decide what to do, once, rather than uploading any workarounds now and having to poke around it later 19:26 Is that for both panel and indicator? 19:27 there is no panel 4.11 release yet 19:28 looks like we're done with this. people involved, please keep in touch with each other. 19:28 #topic Announcements 19:28 i have one! 19:28 at the end of the T cycle, jjfrv8-work will step from the doc lead position. 19:29 while the T cycle lasts, he will keep on leading, with the assistance of slickymaster 19:30 and if everything goes well, jjfrv8-work should be able to hand over the leader hat to slickymaster at the start of the U cycle 19:30 of course, with the approval of the team 19:30 * Unit193 approves. 19:30 * elfy approves 19:31 * pleia2 approves 19:31 we are going to have a meeting on docs issues sometime soon, where those two can update each other on the situation etc. 19:31 * Noskcaj approves the approvals 19:31 sure 19:31 (well the approval should happen later, when U cycle is starting :P) 19:31 so, anybody interested in docs... hear hear! 19:31 jjfrv8-work, slickymaster: you around to schedule? 19:31 yeaps 19:31 yes 19:32 whatever time works for you two is the best 19:32 next week before/after the community meeting? 19:33 next week I should be pretty flexible 19:33 next week is my ubuntu membership meeting 19:33 it depends on how much it will eventually take 19:33 friday though, isn't that it 19:34 on the UM meeting ins on the 6th 19:34 is^^ 19:34 aha 19:34 then i've mismarked that on my calendar ;) 19:34 what about wednesday 19utc then? 19:35 ok with me 19:35 fine with me, also 19:35 ok, that's it 19:35 #info Documentation checkup meeting on Wednesday, Feb 5 at 19UTC 19:36 aaand thanks for both jjfrv8-work and slickymaster for all the work they have done this far and will do in the future! 19:36 any other announcements? 19:36 * pleia2 adds to calendar 19:36 pleia2, ta 19:36 pleia2, you can add thu 19utc as the community meeting while you're at it 19:37 ok, moving on 19:37 #topic Agenda 19:37 #subtopic Enabling more people to push to Xubuntu branches (separate branches team, or would -team do?) 19:37 micahg-work, ping 19:37 yes? 19:37 see the subtopic 19:37 basically, we'd like to allow more people to be able to push to xubuntu branches 19:38 depends on the branches 19:38 -default-settings 19:38 mostly, i think 19:38 we can separate the branches from the uploaders team 19:38 mhm 19:39 do you think it would be ok to add them under ~xubuntu-team, or would you prefer a new team? 19:39 I'd suggest we allow -team to modify branches 19:39 but I'd prefer to limit the people who can push to people who understand the package and have proven through MRs that they know what they're doing 19:39 Would be best to use merges and have a couple review and approve. 19:39 yes 19:39 ok, so something like ~xubuntu-branches 19:39 * Unit193 likes to have at least bluesabre take a look. 19:40 so, I'd basically move the xubuntu-dev team out of the DMB control and we would create a new team for uploaders when someone needs that 19:40 xubuntu-dev is fine 19:40 ok, 19:40 when you say "when someone needs that", what are you exactly referring to? 19:40 when somebody gains packageset uploader access? 19:40 yes 19:41 That takes for ever 19:41 right, i would hope that happens sometime soon 19:41 and rather create a new team for -branches 19:41 micahg-work, Is there anything you can do to speed up my application? 19:41 It will be a month tomorrow 19:41 probably a new record 19:41 but i guess i'm fine with doing what you proposed, then create ~xubuntu-dev-upload if/when we need it 19:41 Noskcaj, it's being discussed 19:42 ok 19:42 knome, the uploader team would be managed by the DMB, so, nothing to worry about there 19:42 micahg-work, sure 19:43 micahg-work, can i get back to you on this in a week or so, to land the change 19:43 land what change? 19:43 the LP teams changes, and separating -dev from upload stuff 19:43 or would you rather just do it right away, or does it need some ack from the DMB? 19:43 oh, I just need to discuss quickly with the DMB 19:44 ok, sure 19:44 #action micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches 19:44 * meetingology micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches 19:44 #info if we need packageset uploader rights for certain people later, we shall create a new team for that purpose 19:45 nope 19:45 DMB would create that 19:45 #undo 19:45 Removing item from minutes: 19:45 #info if we need packageset uploader rights for certain people later, we shall ask DMB to create a new team for that purpose 19:46 nitpicking says me! 19:46 #subtopic Status of Bluetooth in Xubuntu; what kind of testing we want to run, which software we want to use? 19:46 micahg-work, do you have any opinion to that discussion? 19:46 ah, so, I think blueman upstream has be revived 19:47 fyi: i updated blueman last week 19:47 do we have a preference? do they all work with indicators, or do we need to consider that kind of issues? 19:48 is there something better out there, IIRC, blueman was the only one that worked well that didn't pull in half the GNOME stack 19:49 then that sounds like a good one to use 19:49 if there's no problems with using that... 19:49 if there's another alternative, I'm all ears, but with the recent resurgence of development on blueman, I think it's a good horse to be hitched to 19:49 I think blueman has a memory leak though 19:50 there are no big alternatives really 19:50 memleaks are fixable ;) 19:50 * micahg-work waves to cyphermox 19:50 * cyphermox waves back 19:51 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=700863 19:51 Debian bug 700863 in blueman "blueman-applet eats up memory" [Important,Open] 19:51 There's two other memory leaks i know of in xubuntu, so if someone could help me with them after the meeting 19:52 1 year with no response from reporter , that bug isn't likely to be addressed 19:52 no 19:52 can anybody from the team even confirm that bug? 19:53 It's just blueman uses 40mb of ram here and i've never used bluetooth 19:53 that doesn't sound like a memory leak as much as not loading on demand 19:53 Noskcaj: guess it would be worth running it through massif 19:54 if you said 400MB, that would sound like a memory leak 19:54 I'll leave it on during the day to see if i can reproduce it 19:54 micahg-work: it really ought to be running all the time, to be able to get you anything 19:54 unless you don't have a bluetooth device of course 19:54 cyphermox, right, I have that on one machine, bluetooth is off and it's running 19:54 ah 19:56 so i guess the gist is that we should use blueman. 19:56 great, go file bugs! 19:56 (: 19:57 #subtopic Discuss documentation translations 19:57 we should mostly do this on the docs meeting, but... 19:57 ummm - so what about testing blueman - forget it ? 19:57 right... test it! :) 19:57 hrm? 19:58 micahg-work, hrm to what? 19:58 can launchpad not translate the docs? 19:58 hrm to test.. 19:58 it can 19:58 we're doing that. 19:58 we have the .po files in the branch 19:58 #action Someone with bluetooth to write a testcase 19:58 * meetingology Someone with bluetooth to write a testcase 19:59 but we need to tweak the packaging to build the translations and display them in a sane way 19:59 Unit193 has been helping with that 19:59 there are already finish and portuguese versions of the docs 19:59 finnish ^^ 19:59 we also might need/want to set some kind of cut-off percentages, if that's not happening now 19:59 micahg-work, if you happen to know about that side as well, poke Unit193 and me.. 20:00 not too much, I could help on the packaging side 20:00 knome: It was for me, I have that set up but not sure if any sane person would like it. :P 20:00 I've gtg - thanks - cya 20:00 micahg-work, that's probably helpful as well 20:00 but ok, let's follow up on that 20:00 #topic Schedule next meeting 20:01 #info Next meeting Thursday, Feb 6, 19UTC 20:01 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)