== Meeting information == * #xubuntu-devel: Xubuntu community meeting, 24 Oct at 15:03 — 15:58 UTC * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-10-24-15.03.log.html]] == Meeting summary == === Items carried on === The discussion about "Items carried on" started at 15:03. * '''Open action items from previous meetings''' (15:03) * ''ACTION:'' knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week * knome tries to have time for that latest next week * ''ACTION:'' skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so * GridCube will be ready whenever knome needs his asistance * '''Ideas for using the project money''' (15:05) * Discussion will continue on the mailing lists === Team updates === The discussion about "Team updates" started at 15:05. * Planning for testing of LTS is moving on http://pad.ubuntu.com/SdHxBbkLTO * Some input from -team on various aspects of that is required * Published latest in "Xubuntu at" series: http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-at-techs-for-a-cause-in-kansas-city/ * If anyone else knows of people using Xubuntu in the wild, please send them my way :) * knome has still one "Xubuntu at..." -series mail QIP * ''ACTION:'' GridCube to send a list of Xubuntu reviews to the -devel mailing list * Elfy is half way through doing an QA Saucy roundup * knome and pleia2 reviewed the strategy document a bit further... === Annoucements === The discussion about "Annoucements" started at 15:12. * skellat article about upgrading is in progress and can be found at lp:~skellat/+junk/UpgradingXubuntu === New and emerging items === The discussion about "New and emerging items" started at 15:18. * '''Strategy Document reviewing''' (15:18) * ''ACTION:'' knome to make sure latest draft for the new SD is available for everybody before next week * '''Developer communication and coordination in IRC''' (15:32) * Use #xubuntu-devel for development discussions, not #xubuntu-offtopic (where you are of course encouraged to socialize with other developers) * '''Translating the website, LP 797600''' (15:34) * '''Wrap up the Saucy cycle; things we did well, areas to improve, postponing blueprints to T, ...''' (15:40) * '''Xubuntu Core (or xubuntu-core)''' (15:55) * '''Schedule next meeting''' (15:55) * ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap * Next Xubuntu community meeting: Thu, Oct 31st, 15UTC at #xubuntu-devel == Vote results == == Action items == * knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week * skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so * GridCube to send a list of Xubuntu reviews to the -devel mailing list * knome to make sure latest draft for the new SD is available for everybody before next week == Action items, by person == * GridCube * GridCube to send a list of Xubuntu reviews to the -devel mailing list * knome * knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week * knome to make sure latest draft for the new SD is available for everybody before next week * skellat * skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so == People present (lines said) == * knome (136) * GridCube (64) * elfy (19) * pleia2 (19) * ochosi (12) * meetingology (7) * brainwash (2) * ubottu (1) * slickymaster (1) * skellat (0) == Full Log == 15:03 #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting 15:03 Meeting started Thu Oct 24 15:03:32 2013 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 15:03 15:03 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 15:03 #topic Items carried on 15:03 it's the early bird whocatches the worm 15:03 #subtopic Open action items from previous meetings 15:03 �/ 15:04 #action knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week 15:04 * meetingology knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week 15:04 :) thanks 15:04 #info knome tries to have time for that latest next week 15:04 #action skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so 15:04 * meetingology skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so 15:04 #nick skellat 15:04 #info GridCube will be ready whenever knome needs his asistance 15:04 that's it for the open action items 15:05 yes, i mean the desktop of the weeks thing 15:05 :) 15:05 let's postpone the strategy document review for a bit, we have more news about it 15:05 i tiped slow 15:05 #subtopic Ideas for using the project money 15:05 #info Discussion will continue on the mailing lists 15:05 #topic Team updates 15:05 i though we had agree to that already 15:05 partly, not wholly 15:05 ok 15:05 ok, everybody, is there any news? 15:06 (remember to use #action and #info) 15:06 i'm afk for 2mins 15:06 i've been tracking the reviews for xubuntu around 15:06 and watching the responses on the main channel 15:06 #info Planning for testing of LTS is moving on http://pad.ubuntu.com/SdHxBbkLTO 15:07 most reviews says that our desktop is "simple" and "minimalist" 15:07 # Some input from -team on various aspects of that is required 15:07 #info Some input from -team on various aspects of that is required 15:07 even 15:08 #info Published latest in "Xubuntu at" series: http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-at-techs-for-a-cause-in-kansas-city/ 15:08 #info If anyone else knows of people using Xubuntu in the wild, please send them my way :) 15:08 elfy, looks good 15:08 * elfy saw the draft of that - nice :) 15:08 GridCube, for me, that sounds like what we are after - cool! we should add those reviews to the press page 15:08 GridCube, if you have a list of them, can you send it to the -devel ML? 15:09 ok 15:09 #info knome has still one "Xubuntu at..." -series mail QIP 15:09 WIP too 15:09 #action GridCube to send a list of Xubuntu reviews to the -devel mailing list 15:09 * meetingology GridCube to send a list of Xubuntu reviews to the -devel mailing list 15:09 knome, there is a few people that complains about that though 15:09 GridCube, let's discuss that in the "wrap-up saucy" bit. remind me... 15:10 any other updates? 15:10 #info Elfy is half way through doing an QA Saucy roundup 15:10 elfy, you've kept yourself busy :) 15:10 indeed! 15:10 :) 15:10 on holiday apparently ... 15:11 knome: mention edits to strat guide? 15:11 pleia2, i'll speak about that later :) 15:11 knome pleia2 - I want to make more use of the xubuntu.org page for getting QA information out there - so a roundup seems like a good place to start 15:11 but yeah, i could 15:11 l 15:11 k 15:12 #info knome and pleia2 reviewed the strategy document a bit further... 15:12 elfy: great, we all should make more use of it 15:12 elfy, definitely1 15:12 ! too 15:12 #topic Annoucements 15:12 so, 15:12 as some of you acknowledge, this is my second and last term as the XPL within the extended term 15:13 :) 15:13 so that it doesn't come as a surprise, and the project can plan accordingly, i'm announcing it will stay at my last for now; to put it differently, i'm not seeking for another extension 15:13 :'( 15:13 sad but unexpected 15:14 expected ... 15:14 i will keep around though, for consulting and more, but i wish to focus on different things in the community for a change 15:15 and finally, i hope to get the community and the infrastructure in a good shape before i quit 15:16 my main goals for this cycle is to get at least one more contirbutor upload rights and to finalize the strategy document review so it can actually be helpful in the daily work 15:17 ++ 15:17 other goals include, but are not limited to finalizing long-term projects, like getting some new apps uploaded and making logging/locking/shutting down consistent 15:17 :) 15:17 sounds good 15:17 anyway, there seems to be another announcement in the wiki: 15:17 #info skellat article about upgrading is in progress and can be found at lp:~skellat/+junk/UpgradingXubuntu 15:17 since skellat isn't around, let's move on 15:18 #topic New and emerging items 15:18 #subtopic Strategy Document reviewing 15:18 so, as mentioned in the updates, me and pleia2 worked more with the SD 15:18 it was boring, knome caught me off guard as I was wrapping up work 15:18 ha! 15:18 :) 15:18 anyway, we were able to strip off all process-related stuff from the strategy document 15:19 what this means? 15:19 well, the processes are now listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes 15:20 the goal is to make that separate from the strategy document and allow more flexibility and updating the process descriptions while we go 15:20 \o/ 15:20 and hopefully with the shortening of the strategy document it'll be easier for folks to actually read 15:20 i also hope these could be more helpful for new contributors, specifically the release cycle process description 15:21 and that we could keep that updated, so when we start a new cycle, everybody knows what's going to happen 15:21 and yeah, to keep the strategy document shorter, and to the point 15:22 changing things in the strategy document shouldn't be easy, but after this last set of changes it *shouldn't* be easy. 15:22 err, first shouldn't -> isn't 15:22 basically, the SD should only describe what our long-term goals and core ideals are 15:23 * pleia2 nods 15:23 describing how we plan a release isn't such a thing 15:23 #action knome to make sure latest draft for the new SD is available for everybody before next week 15:23 * meetingology knome to make sure latest draft for the new SD is available for everybody before next week 15:23 i would like it very much if we could get people who develops xfce to join us to review the SD 15:23 if our goals and theirs dont collide its well 15:23 its not good 15:24 can you shed some light why do you think it would be beneficial? 15:24 after all, our SD says that something being xfce-related doesn't mean it should be automatically included in xubuntu, or by that nomination, be preferred over something else 15:25 well if they decide to go a road that we can not easily follow,or we decide to go a road that they dont wish to go (like just for example the mir issue) then we are going against the thing that makes us different 15:25 no ofcourse not 15:26 if they decide to do something we don't agree with, then we need to either rethink our mission or drop the component that is against our mission 15:26 as said, I, myself, think it would be nice to have someone upstream to review it and give their impressions 15:27 just that 15:27 while xubuntu is ubuntu with xfce, i personally do not think xubuntu is "the xfce OS", or that we should without constructive criticism and thought follow the way they are leading 15:28 i'm wondering whether the SD isn 15:28 i am not sure i see how it would be beneficial still 15:28 't too xubuntu-specific and probably not too interesting for xfce devs 15:28 (i'd like to think xubuntu is not just one more of the xfce distros outhere but a very important one, i might be wrong ofcourse) 15:29 i'm pretty sure some of the xfce people disagree with some of our goals, or the means to reach them, or whether we have reached them or not 15:29 anyway, it was just a wish, lets move on 15:29 i think i'm also with ochosi on being not-too-interesting for them :) 15:30 i wouldnt hurt to ask 15:30 i suppose we could forward the SD to their development list once the rewrite is done 15:30 mmhm :) 15:30 (this last rewrite didn't really change anything re: xfce, just internal procedures and stuff) 15:31 i was thinking more about the whole gtk3 indicators issue 15:31 that's been discussed with them 15:31 and tbh, that's a non-SD related issue 15:31 yeah, and that's more a roadmap item 15:31 but again, lets move on 15:31 (or it should be) 15:32 #subtopic Developer communication and coordination in IRC 15:32 ok, i just wanted to let you guys know that we *really* should use #xubuntu-devel for development discussion, not -offtopic 15:32 it keeps the development transparent and logged 15:33 alright, sounds fair 15:33 #info Use #xubuntu-devel for development discussions, not #xubuntu-offtopic (where you are of course encouraged to socialize with other developers) 15:33 can i note that we should not use -offtopic for devel things aswell 15:33 well that's what i said ;) 15:33 oh ahahaha i missreaded 15:34 i swapped the channels 15:34 heh. 15:34 #subtopic Translating the website, LP 797600 15:34 Launchpad bug 797600 in Xubuntu Website "Enable translations for the Xubuntu website" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/797600 15:35 can't remember who set this agenda item up, but 15:35 olbi probably 15:35 anyway, the relevant comment: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/797600/comments/6 15:35 pleia2, what do you think of that? 15:35 * pleia2 reads 15:36 we would be able to do this without any translation plugins, and the text itself could be something that was useful for flyers and stuff as well. 15:36 seems messy 15:36 but possible 15:36 not really, as long as the languages are a subpage of a page 15:36 that's of course just one of the options 15:37 i was thinking that would also help the burden for translators short- AND long-term 15:37 can't we handle the translations via launchpad? 15:37 ochosi, website translations? 15:37 humm, 15:37 something like putting the source of xubuntu.org on lp 15:37 heh. 15:37 the problem is how to *handle* those translations 15:37 but that's another idea. 15:37 on the wordpress-side, you mean? 15:38 yep 15:38 right 15:38 i mean, even for this translate-one-page 15:38 well you're the wp-expert, i've never handled translateable installations ;) 15:38 we could create a simple plugin that loads a page and serves alternative languages from .po files 15:39 but that's somewhat fishy as well 15:39 let's see how i have time during the next cycle 15:39 maybe i might be able to finish off my translation plugin as well 15:40 #subtopic Wrap up the Saucy cycle; things we did well, areas to improve, postponing blueprints to T, ... 15:40 so... 15:40 GridCube, people not liking xubuntu? 15:41 or thinking it's too simplistic... 15:41 yes 15:42 the reviews i've seen are a bit dissapointed with us 15:42 i understand that they have to show new shinny things and we dont provide that 15:42 and over that we even give away a desktop that has an obvious broken indicator issue 15:42 so what they are saying is that we didn't provide enough new features for them? 15:43 from what i read the broken sound-indicator is quite a bummer for most upgraders 15:43 (unsurprisingly) 15:43 knome, basically they say that there is no reason to install 13.10 whatsoever 15:43 the broken indicators situation sucks. 15:43 just wait for next LTS waht most of them say 15:43 and there are some logind/suspend issues 15:43 from my POV, we progressed more "behind the curtains" than in front of 15:44 knome, yes, i do understand that, im not saying not, as said they need to show new thingies to their readers 15:44 they could copy paste the review from 13.04 and it would still work 15:44 we have a new wallpaper, this is a major change! 15:44 yeah... 15:45 heh, i read a review that said you can barely notice it unless you compare the two next to each other 15:45 not even a few wallapers to choose 15:45 that's highly subjective though 15:45 the average xubuntu/xfce user does not like fancy changes anyway, things should simply work 15:45 yeah well, also some said that basic xubuntu needs about 500mb of ram with nothing open 15:45 speaking of reviews, can you pleia2: me when you find one? http://xubuntu.org/press/ doesn't have many at the moment 15:46 brainwash, that's a dangerous generalisation to make 15:46 brainwash, probably more true with xfce users, but i don't know about xubuntu users 15:46 pleia2, i've been pasting some on -offtopic 15:46 but sure 15:46 so; 15:46 GridCube: I can't read full backlogs of that channel, so highlight here is appreciated 15:47 :D 15:47 most of them did say that our system almost never crash and its fast 15:47 pleia2, i understand, it's icky enough that most of us can't 15:47 sorry folks, gotta go, have a goo drest of a meeting 15:47 1) we need to get the fixed indicator stack in the backports soon 15:48 2) people want new features, but we didn't provide them those; we will with 14.04 15:48 :) 15:48 i think the indicator stack issue is one of the things where we could've done better 15:49 releasing with them was a decision taken, not an accident though 15:49 * GridCube wasnt really involved to notice how broken that was 15:49 knome: not sure how - it was down to time for the few that could do anything 15:49 it was known for a long time, but fixing it in a way or other wasn't trivial 15:49 indeed 15:50 elfy, i suppose we should've asked for more external support and/or generally just going for the gtk3 stack because we "need" that for 14.04 anyway 15:51 possibly - I don't know enough about the ramifications of that to comment :) 15:51 and a lot of that discussion could have happened earlier in the cycle, even/especially amongst those who couldn't do the final heavy lifting 15:51 and that might've given the people who were able to do the heavy lifting more time to do it 15:51 anyway, i think it was a good cycle community-wise 15:52 as far as I know it was being discussed in here almost as soon as it showed up 15:52 and as i said, more things seemed to happen behind the curtains than in front of 15:52 yea definitely 15:53 elfy, the gtk3 indicator stack was a possible direction at the beginning of the cycle, though at that point it wasn't as clear how broken the gtk2 indicators would've been (but maybe we would've found out...) 15:53 and - congrats to everybody who contributed 15:53 the overall status of xubuntu is impressive, if i can say, i mean besides the gtk3 indicators i dont think there is a single complain that is not subjetive 15:53 13.10 is a good stepping stone for 14.04, which will be, i'm sure, the best xubuntu LTS out there 15:53 :) 15:54 ;D 15:54 it's be tested - that's for sure :p 15:54 that too! 15:54 the agenda has a mention of postponing blueprints/work items for T, but we'll do that later 15:54 Unit193, you around? 15:55 #subtopic Xubuntu Core (or xubuntu-core) 15:55 i'm thinking we should carry on this item for the next meeting 15:55 I agree with that 15:55 third 15:55 #subtopic Schedule next meeting 15:55 o/ 15:55 GridCube, oi? 15:56 i want to ask something for 14.04 15:56 i've read on a review this; 15:56 xfce4-power-manager-plugins is not installed by default, and in 13.10 is now hidden under technical items in the software center. 15:56 This means that the users who can't get their brightness buttons working have to know all of that as well as how to add the brightness manager to the panel to see it at all. That is unacceptable for a newbie to linux. 15:56 i don't know enough of that to say this or that 15:56 i've heard a lot of people comming to the channel to ask about brightness and this is the first time i've learned that xfce has a tool for it 15:56 we need to look at it 15:57 i would like this to be investigated 15:57 :) yes 15:57 can you add that to the roadmap page in the discussion? 15:57 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap 15:57 in lp� 15:57 ok yes 15:57 thanks 15:57 so, next week is the end of brainstorming 15:58 we should discuss the roadmap then, so let's schedule a meeting for next week 15:58 #info Next Xubuntu community meeting: Thu, Oct 31st, 15UTC at #xubuntu-devel 15:58 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)