15:00 <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
15:00 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Aug 28 15:00:10 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
15:00 <meetingology> 
15:00 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
15:00 <knome> #topic Items carried on
15:00 <knome> #action     ACTION: skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
15:00 * meetingology ACTION: skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
15:00 <knome> huh, ok
15:00 <knome> #undo
15:00 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x322d510>
15:00 <knome> #action skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
15:00 * meetingology skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
15:00 <GridCube> :D
15:01 <knome> brb, phone...
15:01 <GridCube> no prob
15:02 <knome> ok, i'm back
15:02 <knome> #topic Team updates
15:02 <knome> ochosi, bluesabre: did you have something?
15:02 <knome> others, micahg?
15:02 <knome> some uploading action at least i think
15:03 <knome> #info ochosi has been preparing an updated artwork package for uploading later
15:04 <GridCube> #info https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects/DesktopOfTheWeek has been updated whit the first few desktops proposed
15:04 <knome> yeah...
15:04 <knome> #action knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
15:04 * meetingology knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
15:04 <knome> GridCube, if i have time after the meeting, i'll start on that right away.
15:05 <GridCube> we will keep moderating and accepting submissions, but if we start anouncing and all that we could start to make some noise in g+ and other social outlets
15:05 <GridCube> good nose
15:05 <GridCube> s/nose/noise
15:05 <knome> hehe
15:05 <GridCube> :D
15:06 <knome> micahg-work, wanted to send some updates, or should we move on?
15:06 <micahg-work> hrm?
15:07 <micahg-work> I didn't see the first part
15:07 <knome> ah
15:07 <knome> we're on team updates
15:07 <knome> did you do something during the week after last thu? :)
15:07 <micahg-work> Catfish 0.8.1 in last night (thanks bluesabre), dropped pidgin-microblog from the seeds since twitter is broke (thanks skellat), gtk-theme-config is on mentors awaiting sponsorship
15:08 <knome> micahg-work, can you prefix with #info so the bot picks it up? thanks
15:08 <micahg-work> #info Catfish 0.8.1 in last night (thanks bluesabre), dropped pidgin-microblog from the seeds since twitter is broke (thanks skellat), gtk-theme-config is on mentors awaiting sponsorship
15:08 <knome> do we need to do something for the gtk-theme-config to get it in before FF, or do you think it'll be picked up?
15:09 <micahg-work> yeah, I need to follow it through to make sure it's sync'd to Ubuntu
15:09 <knome> okay, thanks
15:09 <ochosi> knome: sorry, kinda on and off now
15:09 <knome> anything else?
15:09 <ochosi> true that, i prepared the artwork-upload
15:10 <knome> ochosi, if you could be on for like 5-10 mins, would be good...
15:10 <micahg-work> Was hoping that ochosi had a rebased patch for gmusicbrowser 1.1.10
15:10 <knome> ochosi, can you finish that ^ off for micahg-work today?
15:10 <micahg-work> I can do an artwork upload tonight
15:11 <ochosi> mr_pouit said he'll take care of it
15:11 <micahg-work> #info added clock and keyboard settings for greeter to our defaults (thanks bluesabre)
15:11 <micahg-work> ah, excellent
15:11 <GridCube> :D thats awesome!
15:11 <knome> #action mr_pouit uploads the new artwork package later
15:11 * meetingology mr_pouit uploads the new artwork package later
15:11 <ochosi> micahg-work: are you sure that our patch needs to be modified? afaik it should still apply on top of gmb1.1.10
15:11 <knome> #nick mr_pouit
15:12 <micahg-work> ochosi, it doesn't apply
15:12 <ochosi> micahg-work: strange, i'll take a look a little later today
15:12 <knome> ochosi, thanks!
15:12 <knome> #topic Announcements
15:13 <knome> #info No announcements.
15:13 <knome> #topic New and emerging items
15:13 <knome> #subtopic Inclusion of Xfce 4.11 components in Xubuntu 13.10
15:13 <knome> so, we were in touch with lionel about these
15:13 <knome> and the bottom line was "you should be cautious", but he said it'd be okay to cherry-pick the display dialog if we had the time to do that
15:14 <knome> i'd really like that in, as well as the gtk3-indicators-on-gtk2-panel (which ochosi has been preparing)
15:14 <knome> any possibility we could squeeze them in?
15:14 <ochosi> that's micahg-work's call i guess :)
15:14 <knome> micahg-work, would you have time/any motivation to do that?
15:14 <ochosi> the icon-loading problem has been solved yesterday (if you remember the known issues list)
15:15 <knome> i've argumented for the display dialog before (i can reargument if needed, but would rather not to save time)
15:15 <micahg-work> yeah, I can see about 4.11, I'd like the gtk3 indicators on gtk2 panel patch so we can drop the gtk2 indicator stack (at least from our stuff) and get an extra 6 months of testing on that for the LTS
15:16 <knome> i don't think we need to pull in all of 4.11
15:16 <micahg-work> ochosi, I didn't see 2.0 of the indicator plugin
15:16 <knome> i'd really like the display dialog, and that's about all of my wishlist from 4.11 for now.
15:16 <micahg-work> knome, I wouldn't pull in all of 4.11, just the settings piece and the dialog (I forget which components those are ATM)
15:16 <knome> but that does need some cherry-picking
15:16 <knome> great
15:17 <ochosi> micahg-work: yeah, for some reason the download-tag hasn't appeared on git.xfce yet, but there's a release-email. i can ask andrzejr what went wrong with the tarball
15:17 <ochosi> (as soon as he's online)
15:17 <knome> #action micahg to see about 4.11 settings/display-dialog and the panel patch for gtk3 indicators in gtk2 panel
15:17 * meetingology micahg to see about 4.11 settings/display-dialog and the panel patch for gtk3 indicators in gtk2 panel
15:17 <ochosi> there's even a "preparing for release"-commit (http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-indicator-plugin/commit/?id=6570cb8d49105800b57c6aeabd069d19f722ffe9)
15:17 <micahg-work> ochosi, do you know if it'll work with stock 4.10 in case we decide to revert the patch?
15:18 <knome> want to dig deeper in this issue, or shall we move along?
15:18 <ochosi> micahg-work: i'm not sure, i haven't tested the 2.0 plugin with the 4.10 panel from master
15:18 <ochosi> at least it's not designed to work, but it could
15:18 <micahg-work> hrm :(
15:19 <ochosi> we also need libxfce4ui compiled against gtk3 (so we have gtk2 + gtk3 of that lib)
15:19 <ochosi> sry folks, i gotta run, i'll be back a bit later
15:19 <micahg-work> well, then only panel change we're planning is the gtk3 patch, the rest is 4.10
15:19 <ochosi> feel free to ping me if you need more infos on that
15:20 <ochosi> yeah, the rest remains 4.10
15:20 <knome> #action micahg and ochosi to work on the panel patch together
15:20 * meetingology micahg and ochosi to work on the panel patch together
15:20 <ochosi> only the panel has to be built from the andrzejr/wrapper3 branch
15:20 <ochosi> bbl
15:20 <knome> #subtopic Strategy Document reviewing
15:20 <knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-August/009312.html
15:20 <knome> anybody has questions about that (we'll vote later, on the next meeting)
15:21 <elfy> no questions from me
15:21 <GridCube> i don't particularly fancy the changes on who can vote
15:21 <GridCube> even if -users don't vote they should still have the option to.
15:21 <alpacaherder> Nothing looked objectionable in the diff shown in Launchpad
15:21 <knome> for what reason?
15:21 <GridCube> democracy
15:22 <knome> but *buntu* isn't a democracy
15:22 <GridCube> no, but we do serve our users
15:22 <knome> sure... and i'd say the team knows best who to pick as the new project lead
15:22 <knome> if we let the users pick, they can pick any arbitrary person with the coolest or shortest nick, for example
15:22 <micahg-work> +1 to the vote change
15:23 <knome> (like "knome")
15:23 <micahg-work> but -team needs to be maintainable by more than just the XPL
15:23 <GridCube> probably yes, in any case the proposed leader has to be a known person from -team
15:23 <Unit193> I'd think you should clearify what -team is, no?
15:23 <micahg-work> meritocracy + checks and balances
15:24 <GridCube> well yes i would agree to that micahg-work
15:24 <knome> micahg-work, in practice it is, XPL along with team leads are the ones that nominate people
15:24 <micahg-work> knome, I'd like it to be policy as well :)
15:24 <knome> micahg-work, but also in practice, XPL is the only one with admin rights on the LP team
15:24 <knome> giving those to others would bring other problems
15:25 <micahg-work> knome, XPL should be admin of the team that admins -team
15:25 <knome> micahg-work, the SD says that -team membership is gained with continuing contributions to teams
15:25 <GridCube> yes you see thats the people who should be elected, people who are known and work in the team
15:26 <micahg-work> knome, I"ll have to review the docs + changes and respond at a later time
15:26 <knome> micahg-work, rather than over-complicating it, i'd just count on people doing sensible choices
15:26 <GridCube> but the voters should be anyone from -users
15:26 <knome> micahg-work, ultimately, the SD has a veto vote
15:27 <knome> micahg-work, which can be overruled by CC intervention in the worst case
15:27 <micahg-work> I don't think random users should have a say in who XPL is since that opens it up to be more of a popularity contest
15:27 <knome> i agree with micahg-work
15:27 <knome> even if the nominees were from -team, that doesn't warrant the decision is an informed one
15:27 <GridCube> i like the rest of the modifications though, simplifying the text is a good idea.
15:27 <micahg-work> if people are part of the project, they can get -team membership (and maybe that should be clearer somewhere)
15:27 <knome> (if -users vote)
15:28 <GridCube> knome, probably not, thats true.
15:28 <knome> micahg-work, that is pretty clear on the SD imo, but feel free to propose changes
15:28 <micahg-work> I think the team leads should decide on the slate for XPL
15:28 <micahg-work> people can nominate themselves
15:28 <micahg-work> knome, yes, but who reads the SD :)
15:28 <knome> micahg-work, hah.
15:29 <knome> micahg-work, i hope more people now that it is much more readable
15:29 <micahg-work> I really should draft a response to all this, but won't get to this until the weekend at the earliest
15:29 <knome> but point taken.
15:29 <knome> micahg-work, that's fine, we're not taking any decisions now
15:30 <micahg-work> I would say possibly something about -team membership on the contributing to Xubuntu page, it's akin to "Xubuntu membership"
15:31 <micahg-work> (and if it's on there, I apologize, I don't think I've looked at the page in a while)
15:31 <knome> micahg-work, sounds like something i can agree with :)
15:31 <knome> no, it's not specifically mentioned
15:31 <knome> but i'm not sure if it should be on the contribute frontpage
15:31 <knome> but we can discuss that later
15:32 <micahg-work> maybe a new "Becoming a part of Xubuntu" section
15:32 <knome> sure
15:33 <knome> #subtopic Ideas for using the project money
15:33 <knome> we have about 250 euros. ideas?
15:34 <knome> ok...
15:34 <skellat> Umm
15:34 * knome proposes to use it on the knome beer fund in the lack of better ideas
15:35 <knome> :P
15:35 <skellat> Set up disc distributions?
15:35 <knome> i'm not sure if that's sensible
15:35 <skellat> Use it for a bounty on something we want fixed/built?
15:35 <knome> we could print flyers as well, but all the money would just *go*
15:35 <micahg-work> knome, can use it as seed money for merchandise to generate more money?
15:36 <skellat> +1
15:36 <knome> micahg-work, we can't make money out of merchandise.
15:36 <knome> micahg-work, canonical license agreement.
15:36 <knome> that's the thing; we should just use it so it's gone. :)
15:36 * smartboyhw suggests for using money to sponsor Xubuntu people to meetings
15:36 <smartboyhw> That's a usual way
15:37 <micahg-work> 250 euro isn't much to do something with
15:37 <smartboyhw> Not sure 250 euros do anyway
15:37 <knome> but rather than throwing it all towards a printer (the business, not the machine), i'd spend it to enable the team to do something
15:37 <ali1234> use it to buy prizes and then hold a contest of some sort - would perhaps go further than directly sponsoring specific work
15:37 <skellat> smartboyhw: What sort of meeting do you have in mind?  UbuCon at Ohio Linux Fest?
15:37 <smartboyhw> skellat, not sure, I'm just brainstorming for you guys
15:37 <skellat> Alrighty
15:37 <knome> for example, if we decided we want google hangouts for next vUDS, we could buy headsets for those who don't have one
15:37 <chilicuil> ali1234: +1
15:37 <knome> and we'd be able to buy a few
15:38 <knome> instead of a pile of paper
15:38 <skellat> Or invest in a server to run Jitsi/XMPP so smartboyhw can be included in such discussions since he's locked out of Google Hangouts?
15:38 <ali1234> that's a good idea. nothing is worse than video calling someone with the world's worst mic + webcam
15:38 <smartboyhw> skellat, huh
15:38 <smartboyhw> You'll do it for Noskcaj:)
15:39 <knome> i'd rather invest 5 minutes of my time to create him/them sock puppet accounts that tell they are 18.
15:39 <skellat> knome: That works too
15:39 * smartboyhw hates lying about age as I said
15:39 <Unit193> Well, issue is that G+ hangouts simply seemed to be the least bad option.
15:40 <knome> contests are nice, but what do we gain from that?
15:40 <smartboyhw> knome, nice artwork?
15:40 <smartboyhw> Better packaging
15:40 <knome> smartboyhw, we have a set of artwork contributors to create us that, for free
15:40 <knome> better what packaging?
15:40 <knome> debian packaging?
15:40 <smartboyhw> knome, I mean, more applications:P
15:40 <smartboyhw> Sorry...
15:41 <skellat> That goes back to being a bounty for getting something accomplished
15:41 <lderan> thats not a terrible idea
15:41 <ali1234> yeah... the idea of doing it as a contest is you get loads of people to do it and you only have to pay one of them :P
15:41 <knome> and isn't "more applications" related more to ubuntu repositories than xubuntu
15:41 <smartboyhw> That's a issue, yeah
15:41 <knome> ali1234, but when they so something... what do we gain from them doing that?
15:42 <smartboyhw> knome, bigger contributor base (maybe)
15:42 <ali1234> well for example, a year ago i would have suggested a contest to make some more xfce themes. instead of paying one guy to make one theme, you hold a contest and maybe get 5 good themes but only have to pay the same amount
15:42 <ali1234> although the theme situation seems to be fixed now
15:43 <skellat> If we use it as an honorarium we can ask politely for somebody to help sponsor our developers along the road to gaining status as Debian Developer which will help us get stuff in quicker instead of waiting on mentors.debian.net and sponsorship there.
15:43 <knome> smartboyhw, i wouldn't count on that. and i'd not like people who contribute only because there is money to be had.
15:43 <GridCube> i like the idea of having a server for our own streaming/chat that we can "share" with mainbuntu P:
15:43 <smartboyhw> skellat, +1
15:43 <knome> GridCube, you're not going to get anything like that for 250 euros.
15:43 <GridCube> tru
15:43 <GridCube> e
15:43 <smartboyhw> I think Noskcaj is working on doing that, he has quite a number of package uploads in mentors
15:43 <smartboyhw> (though I am willing to exceed him:P)
15:44 <knome> skellat, good idea, but i'm wondering if money really helps in that
15:44 <skellat> knome: Just as a token of appreciation and/or contribution to their beer funds
15:44 <knome> sure, but still
15:44 <knome> but yeah, i think that's a good idea
15:44 <knome> at least it's not completely in vain
15:45 <knome> #info Discussion to be continued
15:45 <knome> #subtopic Proposal for more structured handling of Xubuntu bugs
15:45 <knome> skellat,
15:45 <skellat> Okay
15:45 <skellat> #info Currently we lack sufficient manpower to secure delegated status for "Bug Control" power
15:46 <micahg-work> we don't need delegated status
15:46 <skellat> #info We still have a "Xubuntu Bugs" team that is subscribed to all of our packages to get bug reports
15:46 <micahg-work> getting people approved for bug control is fairly easy
15:46 <skellat> Yeah
15:46 <micahg-work> one just needs to prove triage skills
15:47 <skellat> Yep
15:47 <skellat> Right now we just need folks to join "Xubuntu Bugs", watch what comes in, and triage.
15:47 <lderan> i can attempt that
15:47 <skellat> There isn't really a whole lot that comes in
15:47 <knome> skellat, want to prepare a blog article on the subject?
15:48 <knome> that's something that people who aren't actively involved could do as well
15:48 <skellat> Not at this point.  I will defer that for a couple weeks.
15:48 <elfy> I seem to see them in mailing list now
15:48 <knome> skellat, sure, but at some point
15:48 <micahg-work> right, people in #ubuntu-bugs can help set status for people until they prove themselves
15:48 <skellat> elfy: I've forwarded a couple to be highlighted to the list if they're one's we should be thinking about
15:49 <skellat> The biggest worry at this point is tagging duplicates, it seems.
15:49 <skellat> And watching for Incomplete information bug reports.
15:49 <micahg-work> that anyone can do I think
15:50 <skellat> Yep
15:50 <elfy> I'd just need some pointers I suspect
15:50 <skellat> Anybody can do it.  We just have to go from "can" to "will".
15:51 <knome> i would say there's also work to be done with the testing team to make the testers aware of what bugs they'd need to be aware of in addition to the ones already reported on the QA tracker or those they happen to hit
15:52 <skellat> Basically we're hitting Feature Freeze tomorrow so now is the time to get started tagging and flagging bugs so we can get rid of them.
15:53 <micahg-work> knome, elfy was working on consolidating bugs so developers can address them
15:53 <knome> micahg-work, yup, that's good
15:53 <elfy> micahg-work: did that with knome's help with launchpad - there are 8 from iso testing
15:53 <micahg-work> speaking of FF, is there anything feature wise we want before tomorrow?  I think I'm going to upload the new gnumeric
15:54 <knome> micahg-work, the panel indicators patch, display dialog, gmusicbrowser and any other pending uploads from ochosi you might have
15:54 <skellat> Nothing I can think of.  Did the seed regenerate after my patch last night?
15:54 <micahg-work> skellat, I uploaded that after I merged in your branch
15:55 <skellat> Okay, good, with the bugs upstream on pidgin-microblog not being addressed it didn't make sense to ship it on-disc at this point.
15:55 <micahg-work> anything else we want to add/remove from the seeds?
15:55 <knome> skellat, so what's the outcome for the bug discussion? (#info please)
15:56 <skellat> #info Members encouraged to join "Xubuntu Bugs" to watch the stream of reports and assist in triaging as they feel so moved
15:57 <skellat> #info Bug handling to be reassessed prior to opening of T cycle
15:57 <knome> okay, thanks
15:58 <skellat> I don't have any further seed changes either, micahg-work
15:58 <knome> can't think of any either
15:58 <knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
15:58 <knome> do we need one next week (b1 release is on thu)
15:59 <GridCube> 2 weeks should be fine i guess
15:59 <skellat> I would rather avoid a release day
15:59 <skellat> 2 weeks
15:59 <knome> skellat, we can pick a wed, like today...
15:59 <knome> but yeah, if we don't need one, let's make that 2 weeks
15:59 <knome> #info Next meeting: Thu Sept 12, 15UTC
15:59 <knome> #endmeeting