21:00:17 <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu team meeting (ISO size etc.)
21:00:17 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb 11 21:00:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
21:00:17 <meetingology> 
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21:00:20 <knome> so who's here
21:00:24 <maddernick> o/
21:00:26 <knome> say "yeeee-a"
21:00:38 <bluesabre> here
21:00:42 <drc> it's yeeee-haa
21:01:00 <drc> finnish-texans, sheesh
21:01:06 <knome> drc, i haven't heard any artist/comedian shout out their audience like cowboys :P
21:01:07 <GridCube> \o
21:01:12 <Unit193> Yeee-haw!
21:01:22 <knome> ah, the left-hand cube has arrived
21:01:24 <pjotr> here
21:01:38 <mrpouit> hallo
21:01:46 <knome> astraljava, micahgmobile, micahg_, ochosi, pleia2
21:01:56 <pjotr> bonsoir, monsieur Le Folgoc
21:01:57 <knome> heya lionel!
21:02:30 <djtf> Professional lurker here.
21:02:36 <knome> if any of you have any *other* agenda items than the iso size, feel free to shout them out now and i'll make sure they get processed after the iso size talk
21:02:46 <pjotr> Libre Office in the iso
21:03:26 <bluesabre> not sure if mousepad made it into the default stack, but mousepad instead of leafpad
21:04:07 <Unit193> I defer one to R+1
21:04:33 <knome> let's wait a bit more, since everybody said they could come...
21:04:55 <GridCube> ok
21:05:26 <GridCube> knome, do we need to start compiling a new faq, correct?
21:05:53 <knome> GridCube, it's not a critical task as it is, but definitely doesn't hurt if we do
21:05:57 <GridCube> and the deviantART group, i still need icons and some guidelines help
21:06:04 <knome> yup, i should work on those
21:06:20 <GridCube> those are my only topics
21:07:19 <knome> #topic ISO size for R and beyond
21:07:41 <knome> so... there's been a lot of discussion about the ISO size
21:08:10 <knome> several team members have been wanting a 1GB ISO for R (and ofc beyond)
21:08:22 <knome> does anybody have any objections to this for starters?
21:08:47 <knome> (speak and repeat, if there is anything we should consider)
21:09:06 <pjotr> I have no voting rights, but I would very much like a 1 GB iso
21:09:18 <knome> that's not an objection, but thanks :)
21:09:18 <maddernick> I think it could be even bigger
21:09:25 <knome> maddernick, for what reason?
21:09:26 <drc> I no longer used cd's so I'll abstain, it doesn't matter to me
21:09:31 <maddernick> Nobody uses CDs
21:09:45 <drc> then what's the discussion about?
21:09:46 <knome> maddernick, why is that a reason to have a bigger than 1GB ISO ?
21:09:52 <maddernick> DVD's or USB sticks are usually a lot bigger than 1GB
21:10:00 <GridCube> i dont have any objection, but again we need to determinate exactly who are our targets
21:10:02 <maddernick> Because then all the goodies could be on there
21:10:04 <pjotr> CD's are even becoming hard to find, in the stores in Holland. All DVD's...
21:10:12 * pleia2 waves
21:10:22 <knome> maddernick, what is it that we need in the ISO that would make it >1GB?
21:10:31 <knome> hey pleia2 :)
21:10:43 <GridCube> i think we cannot target old computers anymore, we need to target new users and make our distro more popular, so we need more space, old computers will have to move on, sadly
21:10:46 <maddernick> For now, perhaps nothing. But in the future there could be many things :)
21:10:49 * micahgmobile waves
21:10:50 <knome> pleia2, do you want to be the one that reads the strategy document? :)
21:10:55 <knome> micahgmobile, oh hullo!
21:11:24 <knome> maddernick, in that case, shouldn't we reconsider the size at a later time (and not have a, say 2GB image right now just because we can and we *might* need it?)
21:11:43 <GridCube> i dont see why a limit is relevant
21:12:00 <Unit193> CD size is less needed right now, but why do we need a huge size?  Do we really want to add the kitchen sink?
21:12:05 <GridCube> its not like we could grow 3gb over night
21:12:12 <pjotr> The important thing is to let go of the CD size, IMHO....
21:12:14 <maddernick> Ofc, I was merely objecting to setting a R and beyond limit in stone
21:12:16 <knome> GridCube, we've lost PAE support anyway, that's true. and we can help people boot from their USB via CD's even if they don't have a BIOS that can boot to USB directly
21:12:18 <pleia2> knome: what am I reading it for? :)
21:12:34 <GridCube> knome, yes, i agree
21:12:36 <knome> pleia2, dunno. GridCube talked about "who's our target!" :)
21:12:38 <micahgmobile> Gridcube: oh yeah :-P
21:13:05 <knome> Unit193, that's exactly what i'm thinking. if we don't have a reason to go over 1GB, why go?
21:13:13 <knome> and we *need* to set some limit for the ISO anyway
21:13:16 <GridCube> if we reset our target, then there is no discussion
21:13:26 <pjotr> Would Libre Office fit in 1 GB?
21:13:26 <bluesabre> at this point, most people have at least a 1 gb flash drive floating around somewhere
21:13:30 <Unit193> I was honestly thinking 800 should do, but it'd be more what micahgmobile says.
21:13:48 <knome> i think 1GB is realistic at this point
21:13:51 <GridCube> i dont see why a limit is relevant at this point
21:13:53 <knome> pjotr, let's talk about that later
21:14:10 <pleia2> my major concern is that right now by continuing to squeeze it onto a CD we're taking up a lot of developer time, micahg at least is spending all this time fiddling to make it fit, time which I think could be much spent elsewhere
21:14:14 <knome> GridCube, just like it's good to have some deadlines, it's good to have some kind of soft limit
21:14:23 <bluesabre> ^ that
21:14:29 <knome> bluesabre, which one? :P
21:14:37 <micahgmobile> I'd rather keep it well under the limit so we're not fiddling each cycle
21:14:41 <bluesabre> I was writing what you wrote faster than me, knome
21:15:02 <knome> bluesabre, ok. :) i was wondering if you pointed to my or elizabeth's comment...
21:15:04 <GridCube> sure, but a "if it grows too much too fast then we consider it" is a better aproach imho
21:15:24 <pleia2> micahgmobile: +1
21:15:29 <knome> if it looks like R is not going to fit in 1GB, then just bump it up.
21:15:38 <GridCube> sure
21:15:41 <knome> it's not a huge decision once we've decided to go USB anyway
21:15:45 <micahgmobile> So, 800-900 MB sounds good
21:15:47 <Unit193> However, I'd like to try and keep gnome deps out if it can be done. :/
21:16:06 <knome> but i don't want to say "our limit is 2GB" just to be able to throw in all kind of stuff we don't really even need...
21:16:12 <GridCube> we should still try to keep it simple, so its simplier for tester and developers to mantain
21:16:24 <knome> yup, more packages is always more packages
21:16:26 <GridCube> not adding stuff just because there is space
21:16:32 <pleia2> right
21:16:33 <bluesabre> right
21:16:34 <knome> ...and more to document
21:16:51 <knome> yup, and test
21:16:51 <knome> and everything
21:16:56 <GridCube> just not being concerned with space if what is needed takes more
21:16:57 <knome> that's why i think there needs to be a limit
21:17:09 <micahgmobile> The maintenance is mostly fiddling for size
21:17:09 <pleia2> our limit should be 800M but secretly 1G ;)
21:17:11 <Unit193> I'd love to get inxi in, as it's very helpful in support areas, and others as well.
21:17:19 <GridCube> and not removing stuff, like locales, i think we need ALL of the locales
21:17:40 <mrpouit> we should give priority to apps we forced out last release, and language packs
21:17:46 * micahgmobile hands GridCube a DVD
21:17:52 <pleia2> mrpouit: +1
21:17:56 <bluesabre> +1
21:17:59 <GridCube> +1
21:18:04 <Unit193> Indeed.
21:18:05 <bluesabre> that would probably get us back to 800mb
21:18:06 <knome> i think the exact limit we're targetting should be set after we've talked what we'd like to fit in for R, discussed what we *will* and after mrpouit and micahgmobile have thought how much that'd need
21:18:36 <GridCube> (again, i dont see the need of a limit, but sure)
21:18:55 <micahgmobile> I don't think we should go over 1 GB without a good reason
21:18:57 <knome> and if possible, bluesabre should be integrated in this process to help mentoring him to be a ubuntu developer
21:19:23 <bluesabre> :D
21:19:41 <knome> i don't think we should add any package without a good reason, whichever limit it was we broke (was it 800, 850, ...)
21:19:51 <micahgmobile> We can have a DVD image with the kitchen sink as long as someone will test it
21:20:05 <pjotr> I'll test it... :-)
21:20:14 <knome> as long as we don't start adding stuff just because we can
21:20:17 <GridCube> not enough testers
21:20:30 <GridCube> agreed, not adding stuff just because
21:20:33 * pleia2 makes note "recruit pjotr to lead testing"
21:20:41 <knome> are we semi-ready to move on to more specific (sub)topics?
21:20:43 <GridCube> i propose a voting on that
21:21:07 <knome> i'd like to go through some stuff quickly before voting
21:21:22 <knome> not necessarily anything that changes the outcome, just want to talk about them
21:21:32 <knome> #subtopic Language support
21:21:52 <knome> what should our plan be?
21:22:00 <pleia2> it made me sad to drop a bunch of packs last cycle
21:22:09 <GridCube> all of locales, all of them
21:22:20 <Unit193> Ummm...
21:22:24 <bluesabre> or at least the ones we were shipping before
21:22:29 <pleia2> how much does "all of them" take up?
21:22:31 <GridCube> i would like that anyone all over the world could put a xubuntu usb and get a sytem in their lang
21:22:32 <knome> GridCube, that will take awfully lot of space, no way it's fitting even in 1GB
21:22:47 <pleia2> bluesabre: that's what I'm thinking
21:22:53 <micahgmobile> I'd like to migrate to Kubuntu style langpacks for the LTS
21:22:58 <knome> bluesabre, "before" referring to 11.10 or sth like 9.10?
21:23:07 <pleia2> I was thinking 11.10
21:23:09 <knome> bluesabre, there's a huge difference... :)
21:23:23 <bluesabre> 6.10 would be a good benchmark
21:23:29 <bluesabre> :D
21:23:29 <Unit193> micahgmobile: What is that?
21:23:34 <pleia2> hehe
21:23:46 <micahgmobile> We can probably do a DVD with all the languages
21:24:01 <knome> micahgmobile, but not in 1GB?
21:24:08 <knome> i mean, let me find a good comment
21:24:20 <micahgmobile> No, it would be closer to 2 GB
21:24:46 <pleia2> yowch
21:24:51 <knome> 23:13  bluesabre: at this point, most people have at least a 1 gb flash drive floating around somewhere
21:25:04 <knome> i think that's a words of a genius
21:25:15 <knome> that's also why i think limit matters
21:25:34 <micahgmobile> I think we should define core languages for the 1 GB image and create a 2 GB+ image for the rest
21:25:50 <knome> that leads to a question
21:26:16 <knome> does it make sense to d/l >2GB image to get your language on the CD, or would you just d/l the 1GB image and install a single langpack in addition?
21:26:20 <pjotr> pjotr hopes Dutch will be deemed a core language... :P
21:26:25 <bluesabre> If the languages are the only difference, there would not have to be much additional testing beyond what we do for the standard iso (since it is also dvd-sized)
21:26:46 <pleia2> how would testing work for the 2G image? it's similar enough that I think the tests would be pretty much identical to the regular image, but release-wise I think we require doing a minimum number of tests on it directly
21:27:11 <knome> bluesabre, well that's not the point. consider english was not on the smaller image. would you d/l >2GB or just install from the 1GB image and add english support?
21:27:24 <bluesabre> sometimes you don't have internet access
21:27:38 <knome> release-wise, we set ourselves how much testing any ISO needs
21:27:39 <bluesabre> especially if you're targeting another "non-core" language
21:28:25 <knome> pjotr, we've usually went the "which is spoken the most" way, and if dutch fits that list... :)
21:28:44 <knome> isn't there any other way to get a langpack downloaded easily and get it installed to a system?
21:28:52 <knome> like, download a bunch of .debs and install then
21:28:54 <knome> *them
21:29:24 <GridCube> yes we could go for the 20 most readed languages
21:29:33 <knome> people should make mini sized ISO's that worked like software repositories
21:29:34 <GridCube> or like that
21:29:38 <knome> one per each language
21:29:42 <knome> just saying...
21:30:05 <bluesabre> I'm not proposing anything, just supported other people's ideas :D
21:30:14 <GridCube> (like the custom slax isos?)
21:30:16 <knome> that could be burned on a CD as well, if you only had one USB stick.
21:30:36 <knome> i believe it's rather easy to create such a cd
21:30:41 <GridCube> http://www.slax.org/en/download.php
21:30:44 <knome> i think it only needs the .debs and some kind of index file
21:30:57 <GridCube> not that thats possible here, but its pretty
21:31:05 <bluesabre> maybe I should make a iso localization gui :D
21:31:27 <GridCube> o: that would be awesome bluesabre
21:31:35 <knome> bluesabre, well that or simply have the base ISO and the localization ISO (if your language is not on the base ISO)
21:31:38 <knome> so anyway
21:32:03 <knome> micahgmobile, mrpouit: do you think it's fair to target what we had pre-12.04 language-wise for starters?
21:32:56 <mrpouit> yeah it should be, I think
21:33:00 <knome> ok, good
21:33:02 <knome> let's go with that
21:33:29 <knome> #subtopic Bringing back Gnumeric and GIMP
21:33:45 <knome> i think it makes sense to reintroduce Gnumeric
21:33:58 <knome> (if we're not including LO, but let's talk about that later again)
21:34:07 <pjotr> Can we merge this with Libre Office question?
21:34:13 <GridCube> no gimp
21:34:13 <pjotr> I have little time left...
21:34:24 <knome> mrpouit, micahgmobile: your thoughts about LO?
21:34:40 <knome> i'm +-0 for GIMP.
21:34:41 <micahgmobile> Too big
21:34:44 <pjotr> Every Xubuntu user I know, has installed Libre Office.
21:34:52 <GridCube> yes, but its too big
21:35:00 <pjotr> A couple of hours ago, I've started a poll on the Dutch Ubuntu forum. With this question to the Xubuntu users there: do you install Libre Office in Xubuntu?
21:35:18 <pjotr> So far, eight responses: 7 yes, 1 no.
21:35:18 <pjotr> URL: http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/algemeen-42/peiling-xubuntugebruikers-heb-je-er-libre-office-bij-geinstalleerd/
21:35:18 <pjotr> You may need to use Google Translate to, well, translate it.... :-)
21:35:18 <knome> i assume there are some dependencies which add to the size
21:35:24 <micahgmobile> LO can go on the larger image if we do one
21:35:32 <knome> well one said "Nee"
21:35:49 <pjotr> knome: lol
21:35:50 <drc> must have been a knight
21:36:02 <bluesabre> gnumeric +1
21:36:06 <bluesabre> gimp +1
21:36:18 <knome> let's make quick polls
21:36:18 <micahgmobile> Knight to bishop 3
21:36:22 <GridCube> lo pulls java
21:36:45 <pjotr> GridCube: not necessarily
21:37:40 <GridCube> that should have been a question
21:37:50 <knome> #vote astraljava bluesabre GridCube knome maddernick micahgmobile mrpouit ochosi pleia2 Unit193
21:37:50 <meetingology> Please vote on: astraljava bluesabre GridCube knome maddernick micahgmobile mrpouit ochosi pleia2 Unit193
21:37:50 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
21:37:56 <knome> hmm.
21:38:01 <pjotr> It would make Xubuntu out of the box a complete alternative to Ubuntu. A first impression which would even be better than it is now.
21:38:03 <knome> i wonder that meetingology expects us to vote on.
21:38:04 <Unit193> #voters
21:38:09 <knome> right.
21:38:11 <GridCube> on ourselfs
21:38:13 <knome> #endvote
21:38:13 <meetingology> Voting ended on: astraljava bluesabre GridCube knome maddernick micahgmobile mrpouit ochosi pleia2 Unit193
21:38:13 <meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
21:38:13 <meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
21:38:18 <knome> #voters astraljava bluesabre GridCube knome maddernick micahgmobile mrpouit ochosi pleia2 Unit193
21:38:18 <meetingology> Current voters: GridCube Unit193 astraljava bluesabre knome maddernick micahgmobile mrpouit ochosi pleia2
21:38:25 <knome> #vote Gnumeric
21:38:25 <meetingology> Please vote on: Gnumeric
21:38:25 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
21:38:28 <knome> +1
21:38:28 <meetingology> +1 received from knome
21:38:31 <GridCube> +1
21:38:31 <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
21:38:31 <pleia2> +1
21:38:31 <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
21:38:34 <knome> that should do it.
21:38:35 <bluesabre> +1
21:38:35 <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
21:38:43 <micahgmobile> +0
21:38:43 <meetingology> +0 received from micahgmobile
21:38:45 <Unit193> +0
21:38:45 <meetingology> +0 received from Unit193
21:39:21 <knome> that makes it at the worst 4-2
21:39:23 <knome> #endvote
21:39:23 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Gnumeric
21:39:23 <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
21:39:23 <meetingology> Motion carried
21:39:30 <knome> let's reintroduce gnumeric.
21:39:34 <GridCube> :)
21:39:38 <knome> #vote GIMP
21:39:38 <meetingology> Please vote on: GIMP
21:39:38 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
21:39:41 <GridCube> -1
21:39:41 <meetingology> -1 received from GridCube
21:39:43 <pleia2> +1
21:39:43 <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
21:39:43 <knome> +0
21:39:43 <meetingology> +0 received from knome
21:39:45 <bluesabre> +1
21:39:45 <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
21:39:53 <micahgmobile> +1
21:39:53 <meetingology> +1 received from micahgmobile
21:40:07 <mrpouit> +1
21:40:07 <meetingology> +1 received from mrpouit
21:40:13 <Unit193> +1
21:40:13 <meetingology> +1 received from Unit193
21:40:21 <knome> that makes it more + than - as well...
21:40:23 <knome> #endvote
21:40:23 <meetingology> Voting ended on: GIMP
21:40:23 <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
21:40:23 <meetingology> Motion carried
21:40:30 <knome> let's reintroduce gimp
21:40:30 <GridCube> :D
21:40:33 <pjotr> OK.... maybe you can reconsider LO for Raring +1.... Thanks for listening to me. I have to go now. Bye.
21:40:33 <bluesabre> yay
21:40:51 <Unit193> pjotr: Bye, have a godo one.
21:40:56 <Unit193> Good as well.
21:40:57 <GridCube> bye pjotr  :) have a nice day
21:40:57 <knome> so, does anybody have anything else about the ISO size than voting on the size itself?
21:41:00 <bluesabre> seeya pjotr
21:41:05 <knome> pjotr, thanks!
21:41:30 <GridCube> wallpapers
21:41:32 <micahgmobile> Just my proposal of core languages
21:41:38 <knome> micahgmobile, sure
21:41:38 <GridCube> ?
21:41:52 <GridCube> thats something reviewrs tend to focus on
21:41:57 <knome> GridCube, we can fit those in if we go 1GB :)
21:42:03 <GridCube> :D i know
21:42:18 <bluesabre> yeah, wallpapers or a xubuntu-wallpapers package (if there is not one already)
21:42:21 <knome> i don't think we need to vote on that
21:42:21 <GridCube> more themes?
21:42:32 <knome> GridCube, not if they're not good in quality
21:42:41 <knome> GridCube, but can be considered, also faenza-xfce
21:43:16 <GridCube> well, a few more wont hurt i say, i would like that reviewers have something fancy to review
21:43:25 <GridCube> beside our strenght that is stability
21:43:40 <GridCube> you know that that was the main complain i've heard out of them
21:43:52 <knome> GridCube, i think we agree with ochosi (with the artwork lead hat on) that quality matters more than quantity
21:43:59 <GridCube> yes
21:44:01 <knome> micahgmobile, so, uh, did you have a proposal?
21:44:01 <GridCube> i agree
21:44:18 <knome> micahgmobile, or were you referring to something you said before
21:44:25 <bluesabre> the main wallpaper complaint I saw was that we have xubuntu-precise -> xubuntu-quantal
21:44:39 <bluesabre> it's funny seeing them argue the difference between them
21:44:43 <bluesabre> when its a symlink
21:44:45 <knome> heh
21:44:52 <knome> take that discussion to mrpouit
21:44:58 <knome> and make him mentor you to fix the names
21:45:02 <micahgmobile> What I said before
21:45:04 <pleia2> hehe
21:45:19 <knome> micahgmobile, i'll find that
21:45:34 <knome> 23:25  micahgmobile: I think we should define core languages for the 1 GB image and create a 2 GB+ image for the rest
21:45:37 <knome> that?
21:45:54 <micahgmobile> Yeah
21:46:07 <knome> ok, i think it makes sense to vote on the main ISO size first
21:46:13 <GridCube> :)
21:46:18 <knome> if we decide 1GB, then vote on that
21:46:22 <knome> agree?
21:47:13 <GridCube> agree
21:47:22 <knome> was asking from micahgmobile :P
21:47:41 <knome> micahgmobile, feel free to disagree, and we'll go the other way. :P
21:48:04 <micahgmobile> Ok, as long as we're under 10 core languages I think
21:48:10 <knome> ok
21:48:14 <knome> #vote ISO size bump: +1 for 1GB, +0 for any other size (please specify), -1 for keeping current CD size
21:48:14 <meetingology> Please vote on: ISO size bump: +1 for 1GB, +0 for any other size (please specify), -1 for keeping current CD size
21:48:14 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
21:48:21 <pleia2> +1
21:48:21 <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
21:48:22 <knome> +1
21:48:22 <meetingology> +1 received from knome
21:48:30 <maddernick> +1
21:48:30 <meetingology> +1 received from maddernick
21:48:38 <micahgmobile> +1
21:48:38 <meetingology> +1 received from micahgmobile
21:48:39 <bluesabre> +1
21:48:39 <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre
21:48:52 <mrpouit> +1
21:48:52 <meetingology> +1 received from mrpouit
21:49:07 <GridCube> +1
21:49:07 <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
21:49:25 <Unit193> +1 (would prefer 800-900, but close enough)
21:49:25 <meetingology> +1 (would prefer 800-900, but close enough) received from Unit193
21:49:26 <knome> Unit193, want to get your vote recorded or more interested in cookies ATM?
21:49:37 <Unit193> knome: Cookies, of course.
21:49:41 <knome> Unit193, you didn't read the instructions! :P
21:49:43 <knome> oh well
21:49:46 <knome> #endvote
21:49:46 <meetingology> Voting ended on: ISO size bump: +1 for 1GB, +0 for any other size (please specify), -1 for keeping current CD size
21:49:46 <meetingology> Votes for:8 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
21:49:46 <meetingology> Motion carried
21:49:51 <Unit193> Sure I did. :)
21:49:59 <knome> didn't follow though
21:50:00 <knome> now then
21:50:03 <knome> another vote
21:50:10 <knome> just a sec as i type it
21:50:13 <bluesabre> woot, lets get 3 media players in there now
21:50:16 <bluesabre> :P
21:50:24 <knome> bluesabre, haha, let's get all, since we can't decide anyway
21:50:36 <Unit193> knome: Meh, it's close enough I may as well say yey.
21:50:42 <micahgmobile> Unit193, my intent is to have the 1 GB image on the range you specified
21:51:10 <Unit193> micahgmobile: Wonderful.  But of course up to you.
21:51:11 <GridCube> woo lets remove gmb and put a good media player! wooo
21:51:28 <bluesabre> what have I started?
21:51:32 <knome> #vote <micahg> 2 ISO's: one "core" ISO (max. 1GB) and one ~2GB ISO with more languages. yay or nay?
21:51:32 <meetingology> Please vote on: <micahg> 2 ISO's: one "core" ISO (max. 1GB) and one ~2GB ISO with more languages. yay or nay?
21:51:32 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
21:51:37 <Unit193> Parole is the music *player*
21:51:50 <knome> GridCube, you still have to have a rationale. :P
21:51:51 <GridCube> +1
21:51:52 <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
21:51:56 <knome> meh.
21:51:57 <knome> -1
21:51:57 <meetingology> -1 received from knome
21:52:05 <bluesabre> +0
21:52:05 <meetingology> +0 received from bluesabre
21:52:22 <knome> well yeah, that'd be more appropriate.
21:52:24 <knome> +0
21:52:24 <meetingology> +0 received from knome
21:52:25 <Unit193> -1
21:52:25 <meetingology> -1 received from Unit193
21:52:45 <mrpouit> +0
21:52:45 <meetingology> +0 received from mrpouit
21:52:51 <maddernick> +0
21:52:51 <meetingology> +0 received from maddernick
21:53:06 <knome> too bad meetingology can only register integers
21:53:09 <bluesabre> looks like its up to pleia2
21:53:19 <knome> and micahgmobile :)
21:53:22 <pleia2> +0
21:53:22 <meetingology> +0 received from pleia2
21:53:33 * Unit193 thinks he should change his. :P
21:53:46 <micahgmobile> +1 if we get testers
21:53:46 <meetingology> +1 if we get testers received from micahgmobile
21:54:01 <knome> Unit193, nah. it's ok. i wanted to vote +0 to not make it hard with all the veto stuff mentioned on the SD.
21:54:13 <knome> but i'd like to make it -0.15
21:54:33 <knome> #endvote
21:54:33 <meetingology> Voting ended on: <micahg> 2 ISO's: one "core" ISO (max. 1GB) and one ~2GB ISO with more languages. yay or nay?
21:54:33 <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:1 Abstentions:5
21:54:33 <meetingology> Motion carried
21:54:45 <knome> i don't think we have a clear decision on this yet
21:54:57 <knome> micahgmobile, would you like to send an email to the -devel list about this sometime this week?
21:55:36 <micahgmobile> Sure, but towards the end of the week
21:55:40 <knome> sure, np
21:55:52 <knome> that's not something that needs to be done by FF anyway
21:56:08 <knome> i think what we want to do is investigate alternatives
21:56:44 <knome> micahgmobile, mrpouit: do you know from the top of your head how hard it would be to create those "repository" ISO's?
21:57:20 <knome> i'm referring to the fact that if you insert a CD that has an ISO for your_release+1, your system tells a disc with software repositories is available
21:57:37 <knome> and you're able to upgrade/install new packages from that
21:57:59 <knome> that would minimize the download size for anyone that doesn't have their language on the main ISO
21:58:37 <knome> and it hopefully wouldn't be too hard to create the instructions for that
21:58:57 <GridCube> agreed, and if its an usb, you can always place the locales on the usb and pull tehm from there manually?
21:59:03 <knome> or if bluesabre_ comes up with another solution, that'd be fine as well
21:59:18 <bluesabre_> :)
21:59:27 <GridCube> we could automatize that?
21:59:29 <knome> GridCube, probably, but since languages involve many packages, it might be a bit tedious to actually get that *installed*
21:59:44 <GridCube> oh, okay
21:59:53 <GridCube> i don't know how that works, sorry
22:00:08 <bluesabre> Going mobile.
22:00:08 <knome> GridCube, maybe. or if after install there's a way to add packages for the use of the CD (from windows or linux or whatever), that would work for me as well
22:00:28 <knome> anything works, as long as it isn't rocket science
22:00:41 <GridCube> yes, agreed
22:01:07 <GridCube> i would like that xubuntu simply calls other languages peoples
22:01:25 <knome> via skype?
22:01:26 * knome hides
22:01:29 <knome> i think we're done
22:01:38 <knome> it's tuesday here
22:01:40 <GridCube> P:
22:01:41 <knome> #endmeeting