#title #xubuntu-devel: Xubuntu community meeting Meeting started by knome at 15:00:21 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-06-13-15.00.log.html . == Meeting summary == *Items carried on *Open action items from previous meeting (knome, 15:01:03) ''ACTION:'' pleia2 and knome to work on marketing products (knome, 15:01:26) ''ACTION:'' pleai2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs (knome, 15:01:40) *Team updates *Development (knome, 15:02:27) Some work done to get Xfce 4.10 in Quantal (knome, 15:02:55) *Quality Assurance (knome, 15:03:05) Some work was done recently to enhance the testing docs, I will dig up the link to those in a minute. The testcases were sanitized, and should now be easier to follow was non-regulars as well. (astraljava, 15:04:21) Since Xubuntu did not do an Alpha-1, we haven't used the new tracker much, yet. We should pick up on that now, though. (astraljava, 15:05:08) https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers is now an *open* team, no need to add your information on the wiki anymore. (knome, 15:06:04) There's an upcoming QA meeting this Sunday, I will post info about it on the mailing lists after this meeting. (astraljava, 15:06:04) ''ACTION:'' astraljava to send information on the Xubuntu QA meeting (knome, 15:06:23) The testers should try to make the QA meeting on Sunday to organize (knome, 15:07:12) *Marketing, Promotion and Artwork (knome, 15:07:21) Some improvements done for Greybird, more information later (knome, 15:07:50) ''ACTION:'' ochosi to send more information on Greybird and a request for feedback to ML (knome, 15:08:18) *General updates (knome, 15:09:55) knome has been working on the Strategy Document review, more info soon (knome, 15:10:15) ''ACTION:'' knome to send information about the revised Strategy Document to ML soon (knome, 15:10:36) All blueprints are now in place, start your engines! (knome, 15:10:58) *Announcements *Changes in chairing the meetings (knome, 15:11:50) ''LINK:'' https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008239.html (knome, 15:11:53) The change described in the mail will take place now (knome, 15:12:12) Basically, any team lead can chair a meeting; if the project lead or any team lead is not available, an informal meeting should take place, and the main points sent to the ML (knome, 15:13:06) *Changes to the Testing lead position (knome, 15:13:26) ''LINK:'' https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008242.html (knome, 15:13:34) Since there has been no objections against the mail, the change takes place now (knome, 15:14:05) Janne Jokitali (astraljava) is the new Xubuntu QA lead (knome, 15:14:23) *Other announcements (knome, 15:15:27) The updated (short) testcase sits now at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Short (astraljava, 15:16:15) *New and emerging items *Feedback on Precise development cycle (knome, 15:17:36) *Blueprints; feedback, questions and answers (knome, 15:27:08) ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/ (knome, 15:27:22) I've been working on the comparison of music players against gmb, can not continue until i have some input about which are the ones that could be considered to compare, because if media libary integration is not obligatory we already have parole (GridCube, 15:27:38) ''ACTION:'' knome to follow up about the default media player -blueprint on the ML, scheduling some time to go through the spec next week (knome, 15:32:41) Generally, all blueprints have no or slow progress, but things are expected to change relatively soon as infrastructure on a few things has been set up (knome, 15:35:42) grandr is no more, keep an eye on the xfce monitor management dialog (knome, 15:41:23) *Enable or disable compositor by default? (knome, 15:43:22) ochosi told he's +1 for enabling by default (knome, 15:43:34) drop compositor on ubiquity? performance issues with low-end machines at installation time if compositor enabled? (knome, 15:49:12) ''ACTION:'' astraljava to look at enabling/disabling compositor (knome, 15:50:07) *Meeting schedule; how often should we have meetings? (knome, 15:50:23) Next Xubuntu community meeting at 21st of June, at 15UTC (knome, 15:55:04) Meeting ended at 15:55:50 UTC. == Votes == * Meetings; +1 for bi-weekly, -1 for weekly For: 4 Against: 1 Abstained: 1 == Action items == * pleia2 and knome to work on marketing products * pleai2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs * astraljava to send information on the Xubuntu QA meeting * ochosi to send more information on Greybird and a request for feedback to ML * knome to send information about the revised Strategy Document to ML soon * knome to follow up about the default media player -blueprint on the ML, scheduling some time to go through the spec next week * astraljava to look at enabling/disabling compositor == Action items, by person == * astraljava ** astraljava to send information on the Xubuntu QA meeting ** astraljava to look at enabling/disabling compositor * knome ** pleia2 and knome to work on marketing products ** knome to send information about the revised Strategy Document to ML soon ** knome to follow up about the default media player -blueprint on the ML, scheduling some time to go through the spec next week * **UNASSIGNED** ** pleai2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs ** ochosi to send more information on Greybird and a request for feedback to ML == People present (lines said) == * knome (149) * GridCube (56) * astraljava (22) * meetingology (21) * bluesabre_ (11) * micahg (6) * hobgoblin (6) * xacobe (1) * ubottu (1) == Full Log == 15:00:21 #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting 15:00:21 Meeting started Wed Jun 13 15:00:21 2012 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 15:00:21 15:00:21 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 15:00:41 #topic Items carried on 15:01:03 #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting 15:01:26 #action pleia2 and knome to work on marketing products 15:01:26 * meetingology pleia2 and knome to work on marketing products 15:01:40 #action pleai2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs 15:01:40 * meetingology pleai2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs 15:01:49 -typo :) 15:02:15 that was it for the action items, there's nothing special going on there, still need to get working! 15:02:22 #topic Team updates 15:02:27 #subtopic Development 15:02:55 #info Some work done to get Xfce 4.10 in Quantal 15:03:05 #subtopic Quality Assurance 15:03:10 astraljava, your stage 15:03:37 (please use #info) 15:04:21 #info Some work was done recently to enhance the testing docs, I will dig up the link to those in a minute. The testcases were sanitized, and should now be easier to follow was non-regulars as well. 15:05:08 #info Since Xubuntu did not do an Alpha-1, we haven't used the new tracker much, yet. We should pick up on that now, though. 15:05:47 :) i zsynked the images yesterday 15:06:04 #info https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers is now an *open* team, no need to add your information on the wiki anymore. 15:06:04 #info There's an upcoming QA meeting this Sunday, I will post info about it on the mailing lists after this meeting. 15:06:23 #action astraljava to send information on the Xubuntu QA meeting 15:06:23 * meetingology astraljava to send information on the Xubuntu QA meeting 15:06:37 bah... you beat me to it. 15:06:41 hi 15:06:43 .. 15:06:44 :)= 15:06:47 xacobe, hello 15:06:54 i suppose that's it 15:07:12 #info The testers should try to make the QA meeting on Sunday to organize 15:07:21 #subtopic Marketing, Promotion and Artwork 15:07:50 #info Some improvements done for Greybird, more information later 15:08:18 #action ochosi to send more information on Greybird and a request for feedback to ML 15:08:18 * meetingology ochosi to send more information on Greybird and a request for feedback to ML 15:08:24 can i paste what ochosi said? 15:08:42 GridCube, the thing about compositor is on the agenda, not WIP 15:08:48 GridCube, (it's a new item) 15:09:10 GridCube, but if it's something that's WIP, go ahead :) 15:09:22 (i mean, if it's something else) 15:09:44 :) no, it was that 15:09:50 okay, let's go forward 15:09:55 #subtopic General updates 15:10:15 #info knome has been working on the Strategy Document review, more info soon 15:10:36 #action knome to send information about the revised Strategy Document to ML soon 15:10:36 * meetingology knome to send information about the revised Strategy Document to ML soon 15:10:41 is there anything else? 15:10:58 #info All blueprints are now in place, start your engines! 15:11:10 i have a comment but goes more to the meetings part 15:11:29 ok, let's discuss that there then :) 15:11:36 #topic Announcements 15:11:50 #subtopic Changes in chairing the meetings 15:11:53 #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008239.html 15:12:12 #info The change described in the mail will take place now 15:12:50 that was what i wanted to comment :) i like that 15:13:05 we should enforce it to happen, meetings are extremely important to me 15:13:06 #info Basically, any team lead can chair a meeting; if the project lead or any team lead is not available, an informal meeting should take place, and the main points sent to the ML 15:13:26 #subtopic Changes to the Testing lead position 15:13:34 #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008242.html 15:14:05 #info Since there has been no objections against the mail, the change takes place now 15:14:23 #info Janne Jokitali (astraljava) is the new Xubuntu QA lead 15:14:38 ...aaaand for the records, it's Jokitalo (will fix that in the minutes) 15:14:45 astraljava, congrats! 15:14:46 *smirk* 15:14:49 Danke. 15:15:18 is there any announcements any team leads (including new ones) would like to shout out? 15:15:27 #subtopic Other announcements 15:15:53 From QA: a small addition. 15:16:09 (again, use #info :)) 15:16:15 #info The updated (short) testcase sits now at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Short 15:16:22 No idea what happened to the longer one. 15:16:40 .. 15:16:45 that wasn't updated; the old one is still at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Long 15:17:06 Oh okay, that's the reason. (we can have a word on why it wasn't updated later...) 15:17:08 *smirk* 15:17:13 hehe. :) 15:17:28 #topic New and emerging items 15:17:36 #subtopic Feedback on Precise development cycle 15:17:40 okay, so 15:18:07 if there is any feedback on the dev cycle, how to do things better, proposals, what worked better than before or anything, the floor is yours 15:18:31 i think we need more communication 15:18:42 please note that we are not evaluating the *product* but the *process* 15:18:48 oh 15:18:54 well 15:18:54 no, you are right :) 15:19:02 that's exactly about the process 15:19:04 ah 15:19:08 and i agree 15:19:19 we started well with the meetings, but somehow let that slip 15:19:21 +1 15:19:27 yes, that what i mean, i was extremely surprised by the logo change 15:19:33 this is one of the reasons why i made the change to chairing 15:19:35 i think that was handled pretty bad 15:19:52 i like the new logo now, but it was an unpleasant surprise 15:20:03 GridCube, while i agree that we could've communicated better on it, but it was announced 15:20:30 yes i know, but meeting where so far apart and sporadic that missing them was extremely easy 15:20:32 i think the biggest reason why the communication was bad was that it happened so late in the cycle; we actually had a real rush to even get it to the release 15:20:44 GridCube, exactly; again, that's why the new chairing stuff :) 15:20:49 :) 15:20:53 GridCube, (and note about the informal meetings) 15:20:59 yes i see that 15:21:07 generally, any communication between contributors and community is encouraged 15:21:16 and i see we have a twitter feed and g+ 15:21:32 so i hope we use it 15:21:34 yes, though that's for a bit different communication, but still 15:21:54 yes, the twitter and G+ accounts will be used to announce meetings and new articles on the blog 15:21:55 no, it the same, sending the minutes to twitter and g+ 15:22:08 its part of the communication 15:22:18 (and we now have an official linkedin xubuntu users group) 15:22:33 Whee! 15:22:42 :) yes, i hope the password didnt got stolen in the bunch :P 15:23:03 GridCube, yes, it's part of it, but it's not developer-developer communication; IRC, wiki and the mailing lists are designed for those :) 15:23:15 I hope all of those twitter etc are extra to existing methods of communication - or some od us will miss things 15:23:21 :) i know 15:23:27 hobgoblin, yes, that's how it is 15:23:37 ok thanks :) 15:23:55 hobgoblin, as long as you follow the -devel ML, this IRC channel (and maybe the website), you're fine 15:24:05 and wiki too, if you're interested in a specific area 15:24:08 I do 15:24:45 :) 15:25:00 #agreed We need better communication this cycle; actions already taken are changes in the meetings and social media accounts 15:25:12 anything else on the subject? 15:25:32 not from me 15:25:40 somebody else? 15:25:47 bluesabre_? 15:26:11 I'm good. :) 15:26:11 bluesabre_, is there something we can do better to make new contributors feel more included? 15:26:24 I felt pretty included the whole time 15:26:35 that's good feedback - thanks :) 15:26:45 Thanks! 15:26:55 let's get rolling again then! 15:27:08 #subtopic Blueprints; feedback, questions and answers 15:27:15 o/ 15:27:22 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/ 15:27:24 GridCube, go ahead 15:27:38 #info I've been working on the comparison of music players against gmb, can not continue until i have some input about which are the ones that could be considered to compare, because if media libary integration is not obligatory we already have parole 15:27:56 :) 15:28:39 .. 15:28:48 i'd suggest scheduling some time in the near future (maybe next week) with me, you and maybe ochosi (and of course, others interested) to go through what you have done already, and what would be the next steps 15:29:27 does that sound like a good plan? 15:29:40 (I'm a fan of keeping something with a library and sound menu support) :) 15:30:09 mmh, one of the things we need to discuss is what the "requirements" for features are for the default media player 15:30:25 that needs to be done before we can rule out players from the comparison 15:30:52 yes 15:30:57 i agree that we have way too many players up right now; it would be way too much work to compare all those 15:31:09 i agree, it sounds like an idea knome 15:31:34 my stance on it is that we should at least drop anything with Qt or anything that's CLI off 15:31:48 and, everything that is not on the repositories too 15:31:57 (and everything that takes >200MB) :D 15:31:59 mmhm yes, i added them just because they qhere recomended to me to test 15:32:06 yup, that's good 15:32:19 in this channels 15:32:41 #action knome to follow up about the default media player -blueprint on the ML, scheduling some time to go through the spec next week 15:32:41 * meetingology knome to follow up about the default media player -blueprint on the ML, scheduling some time to go through the spec next week 15:33:04 GridCube, something around these times is good for you? ~15UTC ? 15:34:59 anything else on the blueprints? 15:35:42 #info Generally, all blueprints have no or slow progress, but things are expected to change relatively soon as infrastructure on a few things has been set up 15:36:55 knome, yes, that a good time 15:37:00 GridCube, ok, good 15:37:16 bluesabre_, you have anything about the blueprints? 15:37:30 astraljava, you? 15:37:51 Not really. Slow going on the keyboard shortcuts overlay and catfish (which is nearly done) 15:38:33 o/ 15:38:33 bluesabre_, great to hear :) you know it already, but please remember to update the work item statuses while you progress :) 15:38:36 GridCube, yep? 15:38:43 about the arandr thing 15:38:46 sure thing :) 15:38:48 Not really, pretty much the same as others; slow progress, unfortunately. Trying to pick up soon. 15:38:57 GridCube, what's up with that? 15:38:58 theres just arandr, grandr is not been made anymore 15:39:15 i mean theres only one current interface for xrandr 15:39:32 !info grandr 15:39:33 Package grandr does not exist in precise 15:39:35 GridCube, mm-hmm; in that ase, the question is if we want to include that or not 15:39:38 +c 15:39:42 yep 15:39:51 i'm not sure what the status on xfce monitor management dialog is 15:40:01 if that looks good, then it's an option too 15:40:11 in 4.10 its the same that in 4.8 15:40:15 if not, then there shouldn't be much stopping us from shipping arandr 15:40:19 so its not good 15:40:37 well, we can cherry-pick changes if the dialog gets much love in the next weeks 15:40:47 mmhm 15:40:50 i agree 15:40:50 * micahg sees there's a meeting of some sort going on 15:41:06 micahg, yes, the community meeting announced on the ML;) 15:41:17 micahg, a community meeting not the less 15:41:18 :D 15:41:23 #info grandr is no more, keep an eye on the xfce monitor management dialog 15:42:21 anything else on the blueprints? 15:42:41 not from my pocket :P 15:43:10 ok, let's continue then (let's try to fit this in 1h) 15:43:22 #subtopic Enable or disable compositor by default? 15:43:34 #info ochosi told he's +1 for enabling by default 15:43:50 I'm all for keeping it by default 15:43:59 i don't really care 15:44:01 Keeping? 15:44:12 the reason why i brought this up is that it takes some resources and even causes some problems when enabled 15:44:13 *enabling 15:44:21 astraljava, it's enabled by default now. 15:44:28 Ok. 15:44:54 What problems exist with it enabled (besides ubiquity)? 15:44:56 i think that it might be disabled by default in the livecd and enabled in the final install 15:45:17 bluesabre_, for some people it has brought some rendering issues 15:45:25 (really rare, but happens) 15:45:30 ah 15:45:40 i think the main argument for keeping it enabled is our semi-transparent launcher panel 15:45:50 we'd have to change that if we disabled compositor 15:46:08 GridCube, yes, that's something we should look at, because it brings some problems to ubiquity 15:46:33 GridCube, or, just fix how ubiquity runs xfce, because that's what is actually causing the problems 15:47:14 maybe we can make some performance tests on how it affects low-end machines at installation time 15:47:28 knome, the pseudo dock can be rezised and centered and locked so it wont be on all over the bottom of the monitor 15:48:06 GridCube, yes, but that's not the issue; the issue is that if we disable the compositor, we can't have panel transparency 15:48:14 and that doesnt need transparencies 15:48:22 possibly 15:49:12 #info drop compositor on ubiquity? performance issues with low-end machines at installation time if compositor enabled? 15:49:32 i think we should investigate this more when we start testing 15:49:41 right now, there is not much to do 15:49:45 I'll mark it as a TODO for me. 15:49:55 astraljava, ok, thanks:) 15:50:07 #action astraljava to look at enabling/disabling compositor 15:50:07 * meetingology astraljava to look at enabling/disabling compositor 15:50:23 #subtopic Meeting schedule; how often should we have meetings? 15:50:30 weekly, be-weekly? 15:50:59 we should just run a quick poll to get some idea 15:51:11 I think bi-weekly is enough. 15:51:23 #vote Meetings; +1 for bi-weekly, -1 for weekly 15:51:23 Please vote on: Meetings; +1 for bi-weekly, -1 for weekly 15:51:23 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 15:51:25 +1 15:51:25 +1 received from knome 15:51:34 +1 15:51:34 +1 received from astraljava 15:51:37 +1 15:51:37 +1 received from bluesabre_ 15:51:43 GridCube, micahg? 15:51:44 -1 15:51:44 -1 received from GridCube 15:51:52 sorry i have a huge lag 15:51:58 no problem :) 15:52:07 i'll try to wait for some time before proceeding 15:52:15 i'm sure not all can be as focused as i am... 15:52:29 i mean, need to chair == need to be focused 15:52:36 hobgoblin, ? 15:52:49 hello 15:52:59 oic 15:53:04 +1 15:53:04 +1 received from hobgoblin 15:53:10 vote hobgoblin :D 15:53:17 +0, biweekly except around a release milestone IMHO 15:53:17 +0, biweekly except around a release milestone IMHO received from micahg 15:53:41 micahg, mm-hmm, might be ideal that way :) 15:53:43 #endvote 15:53:43 Voting ended on: Meetings; +1 for bi-weekly, -1 for weekly 15:53:43 Votes for:4 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1 15:53:43 Motion carried 15:54:08 let's set the next meeting to two weeks from now 15:54:20 if there is need, people can have an informal meeting next week :) 15:54:33 :D 15:54:34 I'd actually suggest a meeting next week if you want an alpah2 15:54:40 micahg, ah. 15:54:44 *alpha2 even 15:54:45 in that case... 15:54:50 let's make it next week ;) 15:55:00 Decisions are made to be broken anyway. 15:55:04 #info Next Xubuntu community meeting at 21st of June, at 15UTC 15:55:16 especially with the meetings on wed, the pre freeze meeting can be planning and the pre release meeting can be make sure everything is good 15:55:18 * GridCube wonders if that wouldnt actually be alpha1... you know... because we hadnt that one... 15:55:40 GridCube: because the release schedule says so :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule 15:55:41 GridCube, no, that's still a2 in the ubuntu calendar :) 15:55:49 :P 15:55:50 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)