#title #xubuntu-devel: Xubuntu Community Meeting Meeting started by knome at 19:04:05 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-03-14-19.04.log.html . == Meeting summary == *Team Updates *Package and Development (knome, 19:04:34) nothing much apart from bugfixes: xfdesktop4, xfce4-cellmodem-plugin, shimmer-themes, xfce4-settings and xfce4-xkb-plugin (mr_pouit, 19:06:14) micahg working on lightdm-gtk-greeter and blueman, should hopefully be ok for beta 2 (mr_pouit, 19:06:25) PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386 (knome, 19:07:14) NON-PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386 (knome, 19:07:32) *Bugs, Testing, Docs (knome, 19:07:58) I'm in the process of improving the testing docs, hopefully a blog post too so we can have more testers for beta2 (pleia2, 19:09:57) *Marketing, Art, Web (knome, 19:11:49) Submitted web form request to confirm we can make Xubuntu products, no response (pleia2, 19:12:19) *General updates (knome, 19:14:02) *Other Business *Seeding GThumb (knome, 19:15:45) *New logo (knome, 19:23:19) ''ACTION:'' knome, ochosi and mr_pouit to work on getting the new logo everywhere (knome, 19:31:11) ''ACTION:'' knome to look the whisker-size (knome, 20:01:34) knome promises to work on any suggestions to make the new logo better tomorrow (knome, 20:09:09) *PAE kernel (knome, 20:09:19) *Open action items from previous meeting (knome, 20:11:08) cjwatson will look at using non-PAE kernel with xubuntu precise i386, knome to follow-up with him if problems arises (knome, 20:20:50) ''ACTION:'' pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in (knome, 20:21:17) ''ACTION:'' knome to design flyers (knome, 20:21:32) ''ACTION:'' pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs (knome, 20:22:18) ''ACTION:'' pleia2 to gather content for flyers (knome, 20:22:28) Meeting ended at 20:22:38 UTC. == Votes == * New Xubuntu logo (+1) or the old one, please! (-1) For: 2 Against: 1 Abstained: 1 == Action items == * knome, ochosi and mr_pouit to work on getting the new logo everywhere * knome to look the whisker-size * pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in * knome to design flyers * pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs * pleia2 to gather content for flyers == Action items, by person == * knome ** knome, ochosi and mr_pouit to work on getting the new logo everywhere ** knome to look the whisker-size ** pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in ** knome to design flyers * mr_pouit ** knome, ochosi and mr_pouit to work on getting the new logo everywhere * pleia2 ** pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in ** pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs ** pleia2 to gather content for flyers == People present (lines said) == * knome (165) * micahg (34) * pleia2 (22) * meetingology (18) * mr_pouit (17) * Unit193 (6) == Full Log == 19:04:05 #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting 19:04:05 Meeting started Wed Mar 14 19:04:05 2012 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 19:04:05 19:04:05 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 19:04:15 #topic Team Updates 19:04:34 #subtopic Package and Development 19:04:35 meetingology, 19:04:37 errrh 19:04:38 mr_pouit, 19:05:39 nothing much apart from bugfixes: xfdesktop4, xfce4-cellmodem-plugin, shimmer-themes, xfce4-settings and xfce4-xkb-plugin 19:05:54 mr_pouit, can you repost with #info? thanks :P 19:05:57 micahg working on lightdm-gtk-greeter and blueman, should hopefully be ok for beta 2 19:06:01 I hate you :p 19:06:07 it's mutual 19:06:12 i hate myself too 19:06:14 #info nothing much apart from bugfixes: xfdesktop4, xfce4-cellmodem-plugin, shimmer-themes, xfce4-settings and xfce4-xkb-plugin 19:06:25 #info micahg working on lightdm-gtk-greeter and blueman, should hopefully be ok for beta 2 19:06:28 voila :) 19:06:34 thanks 19:06:40 anything else? 19:07:14 #info PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386 19:07:22 yeah, that too 19:07:27 err!!! 19:07:32 #info NON-PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386 19:07:43 * knome 's brain is a bit numb 19:07:58 #subtopic Bugs, Testing, Docs 19:07:59 how many users do we expect to need that? 19:08:13 micahg, no idea, but it's easier to install PAE 19:08:23 You should be able to go from a mini and install xubuntu-desktop. 19:08:41 Unit193, yes... but in that case, we're offering alternate too 19:08:53 Unit193, so those who need alternate, could go via mini too 19:09:11 there's an item for this on other business, we can continue this later in the meeting :) 19:09:18 anything on bugs, testing, docs? 19:09:44 ah, yes 19:09:57 #info I'm in the process of improving the testing docs, hopefully a blog post too so we can have more testers for beta2 19:10:28 . 19:11:04 something else? 19:11:23 that's all from me 19:11:34 ok... 19:11:49 #subtopic Marketing, Art, Web 19:12:16 i suppose there's not yet anything new from the marketing stuff? 19:12:19 #info Submitted web form request to confirm we can make Xubuntu products, no response 19:12:25 it's been over 2 weeks now 19:12:40 so nothing new :( 19:12:40 :/ 19:12:55 yeah, let's hope we get forward before precise release 19:13:10 I'll try again, maybe it just got lost 19:13:24 btw, if we change our logo, we need new stickers 19:13:44 or at least new sticker sources :) 19:14:02 #subtopic General updates 19:14:04 anything else? 19:15:18 I think that's it 19:15:34 me too, it should be quiet after all the freezes... 19:15:39 #topic Other Business 19:15:45 #subtopic Seeding GThumb 19:16:02 okay, so now that ristretto is working again, do we feel like we still should seed gthumb? 19:17:23 yeah, for importing photos from cameras? 19:17:41 but most of the cameras work as uh, filesystems 19:17:48 there was a term for this 19:18:12 mass storage? 19:18:15 that 19:20:09 so does most of the cameras support that or not? 19:20:42 I think we still need gthumb for other cameras that use ptp 19:20:54 (but I'm not really into that sort of things, so I can be wrong ;-) 19:21:01 okay, it's not too large, is it? 19:21:12 and btw, what's the current iso size status? 19:21:31 we're not oversized anyway 19:22:02 amd64: 694M, i386: 679M 19:22:04 (today) 19:22:07 mmh, so not too tight 19:22:21 (thinking about P+1 too) 19:22:33 so let's still seed gthumb 19:22:38 or does somebody disagree? 19:23:13 no? okay... 19:23:19 #subtopic New logo 19:23:36 so, there's a proposal for a new logo 19:23:39 reasoning is: 19:23:49 it's easier to drop in to various places graphically 19:23:57 it works better on small sizes 19:24:16 it's brighter and more saturated 19:24:25 and it looks good too. 19:24:45 comparisons can be found at: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_logo/ 19:25:32 comments? 19:25:40 it's good :) 19:26:03 yes, i personally prefer the closed shape very much 19:28:06 is anybody disagreeing? i wanted to bring this to the meeting to raise discussion and to hear if somebody disagrees 19:29:00 * knome just confirmed with skaet that we are okay to do the logo changes after UIFe 19:29:14 so no exception needed? 19:30:43 mr_pouit, i'm checking with skaet 19:31:11 #action knome, ochosi and mr_pouit to work on getting the new logo everywhere 19:31:11 * meetingology knome, ochosi and mr_pouit to work on getting the new logo everywhere 19:31:44 * micahg prefers the old logo 19:32:09 the new one makes it hard to tell what it is 19:33:29 mmh. i wonder if that's true for those too who doesn't already know the xfce logo 19:33:49 (I like it on the plymouth theme) 19:33:59 mr_pouit, "probably best to submit a UIFe" 19:34:14 mr_pouit, if you need help with that, just ask me 19:34:25 mr_pouit, or, if you want me to do that :P 19:35:42 and the whiskers look like a bunny is hiding in the background 19:35:46 mr_pouit, the new or old? 19:36:03 micahg, in the old logo, the whiskers are barely visible 19:36:34 right :) 19:36:48 except in BIG sizes 19:36:49 knome: the new one (and yes, please file the UIFe please :P) 19:37:19 but that's not really a problem with the new logo either... there *is* a gap :) 19:37:39 mr_pouit, yeah, skaet ACK'd, now just need to send email to docs team 19:38:02 mr_pouit, okay, we need to upload *this week* :) 19:38:34 knome: I think the gap makes it look funny 19:39:00 micahg, yeah, but the gap existed on the old logo too 19:39:26 doesn't look like it 19:39:32 huh? 19:39:48 in http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_logo/logo_comparison.png ? :) 19:40:04 oh, yeah, on that one you can see it 19:40:18 yeah, it's a small one on both, but there is one on both 19:40:18 was looking at the website logo 19:40:22 ah :) 19:40:44 yeah, the website logo is actually the reason why we decided to change 19:44:01 micahg, so, do you still think there new logo is weird? 19:44:11 yes 19:44:24 i mean, there's some drawbacks on both ones.. 19:44:36 but I've been using Xubuntu for 4 years and am very familiar with the old look 19:44:59 is it about the whiskers, or the mousehead-shape? 19:45:04 both 19:45:17 mmh 19:45:27 any suggestions how could we make it less weird? 19:46:17 for the mousehead, i don't think there's much to do except small changes to the shape, since the idea is to have a closed-shape logo 19:46:20 thinner whiskers, add back legs? 19:46:52 would make the shape inside the circle smaller 19:47:20 also, i suppose it would look weird to have legs but almost no body at all :) 19:48:21 anyhow, do we think we're ready to vote? 19:48:38 small changes are doable before uploading, i'll be working on this tomorrow anyway 19:48:43 * micahg seems to be alone in this view though 19:48:58 micahg: I wasn't fond of it either. 19:49:05 i could look about making the gap for whiskers bigger 19:49:14 Unit193, and this is exactly why i asked you to say this earlier 19:49:50 I don't think the gap should be bigger, rather the whiskers thinned out 19:50:10 mmh. 19:50:27 i can look what i can do without making them disappear again on small sizes :) 19:50:42 or, then we could just have two versions, but that's in a way suboptimal 19:51:00 Unit193, do you want to express what *you* think is not right with the new logo? 19:51:31 Not really, that's why I held my fingers, so to say. 19:51:54 micahg, are you completely dissatisfied with the new look? 19:53:05 knome: idk, I'd probably get used to it over time, I just prefer something closer to the old one 19:53:39 micahg, yeah. it's not that i don't like the old one, it's just a near-nightmare graphically to drop in to various places :) 19:54:42 knome: can we go the other way and pull the full mouse in? 19:55:02 micahg, that makes it completely unrexognisable on small sizes 19:55:21 micahg, which is why we didn't do that at 10.04, when we changed the logo the last time 19:55:22 what does upstream do about this? 19:55:41 i suppose xfce uses the X from the logo 19:55:52 and mouse only on bigger sizes 19:58:55 micahg, do you think the whiskers are too fat in the website comparison already? 19:59:05 yes 19:59:34 what about plymouth? 19:59:49 imo they are quite right there... 20:00:12 but maybe that's because it's inverted :) 20:01:02 the actual sizes are pretty much the smae 20:01:34 #action knome to look the whisker-size 20:01:34 * meetingology knome to look the whisker-size 20:01:50 that's my favorite action item ever 20:01:53 hehe 20:02:10 if there is nothing new to add to the discussion, let's vote yay/nay 20:02:29 #vote New Xubuntu logo (+1) or the old one, please! (-1) 20:02:29 Please vote on: New Xubuntu logo (+1) or the old one, please! (-1) 20:02:29 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 20:02:31 +1 20:02:31 +1 received from knome 20:02:35 +1 20:02:35 +1 received from pleia2 20:03:20 mr_pouit, micahg, Unit193 20:03:30 -1 20:03:30 -1 received from micahg 20:03:59 -0 20:04:11 Unit193, i suppose -0 isn't +0 :D 20:04:17 but mmh... 20:04:18 +0 20:04:18 +0 received from Unit193 20:04:23 Meany... 20:05:01 mr_pouit, you still lurking around or should we proceed? 20:05:52 #endvote 20:05:52 Voting ended on: New Xubuntu logo (+1) or the old one, please! (-1) 20:05:52 Votes for:2 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1 20:05:52 Motion carried 20:06:13 not exactly overwhelming support :) maybe a discussion for the list? 20:06:40 pleia2, we need to push the changes this week, according to skaet, who's now on the chan 20:06:50 * pleia2 nods 20:06:53 mr_pouit said earlier that he likes the new logo on plymouth 20:06:57 ok 20:07:03 also, ochosi would have given +1, if he was attending 20:07:09 good enough 20:07:19 (that's said at #shimmer though, but it's recorded) 20:08:11 what ochosi also said is probably true; if we're changing the logo, we probably should do that with 12.04 20:08:29 and i have to agree with that. pushing a new logo for LTS+1 is quite bland :) 20:09:09 #info knome promises to work on any suggestions to make the new logo better tomorrow 20:09:19 #subtopic PAE kernel 20:09:40 okay, so non-PAE kernel is requested for xubuntu precise i386 20:09:54 was there some discussion people wanted to have about this? 20:10:58 apparently not anymore... :) 20:11:08 * micahg wonders if Windows 8 supports non-PAE 20:11:08 #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting 20:11:16 ouch 20:11:17 heh 20:11:17 well 20:11:36 ubuntu desktop doesn't 20:11:51 and i agree it makes sense to have a derivative that does 20:11:57 well, no ubuntu-desktop supports it, just not in the installer :) 20:12:05 mmh, right 20:12:20 but yeah, how do you install the system if the installer is PAE-only 20:12:22 as do we 20:12:34 install 11.10 or a netboot install 20:12:49 yeah, but let's say 13.04 is out 20:12:55 you don't want to install 11.10 20:13:01 or even when 12.10 is out 20:13:06 it doesn't make much sense 20:13:13 13.04 probably will not have a non-PAE kernell, 12.10 might not either 20:13:21 having non-PAE kernel doesn't do any harm, right? 20:13:22 knome: you install 11.10 and upgrade to 12.04 20:13:50 i mean, you can always switch to PAE kernel after installation 20:14:07 12.04 will probably be end of the line for non-PAE kernels 20:14:09 that's a smaller bad than having to install+upgrade 20:14:25 yeah, but otoh, 12.04 is LTS, so it makes sense to support non-PAE there 20:14:42 if 12.10 is PAE-only, then it is, and we have to live with it 20:14:45 it would be nice to have the same support as regular ubuntu in this regard 20:15:00 so keep non-pae with lts, then drop it after 20:15:08 knome: well, if the installer work happens anyways and it won't break anything, I wouldn't mind shipping the non-PAE kernel 20:15:24 pleia2: the Ubuntu ISOs for 12.04 will ship the PAE kernel for i386 20:15:32 micahg, we've filed a bug today and cjwatson is the assignee, and will work it out 20:15:34 micahg: oh, oops 20:15:45 maybe we should too :\ 20:16:03 so, if it's not too much work and won't break anything, I don't mind either way 20:16:20 pleia2, except in that case, those users with processors that do not support PAE will need to install 11.0 and upgrade to 12.04 20:16:44 knome: which is either a 10+ year old desktop or a 5+ year old laptop/netbook 20:16:47 if it's too much work or breaks things, i'm sure we'll hear about this and can rethink 20:16:51 knome: as I understand it, the number of users this impacts is on the low side (and it's not like we'll have a fleet of people installing xubuntu servers) 20:17:12 pleia2: right, that's why I'm ambivalent about the whole thing 20:17:29 micahg, yes, but we say on our website that xubuntu works on older hardware too 20:17:44 pleia2, the number of users who need alternate is on the low side too 20:18:00 knome: it will work :), just depends what you define as old, you can't run Xubuntu on a P1 20:18:31 my p3 laptop won't run pae, but my p3 laptop also kernel panics when I look at it wrong 20:18:41 micahg, but you do agree with me that we can use non-PAE if it just works? :) 20:18:53 mr_pouit +1'd non-PAE 20:19:04 he's going to love me for highlighting him so many times... 20:19:08 knome: yes, as those installinig 32 bit xubuntu vs 64 bit will probably have less than 3GB RAM 20:19:42 okay, good 20:20:50 #info cjwatson will look at using non-PAE kernel with xubuntu precise i386, knome to follow-up with him if problems arises 20:21:08 so, now the old action items 20:21:17 #action pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in 20:21:17 * meetingology pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in 20:21:24 carried on 20:21:32 #action knome to design flyers 20:21:32 * meetingology knome to design flyers 20:21:33 carried on 20:21:42 wallpaper is finalized 20:21:47 madnick provided code 20:21:52 shortcuts are in 20:21:57 wallpaper is in the repo 20:22:10 xfce package revs ok 20:22:18 #action pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs 20:22:18 * meetingology pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs 20:22:28 #action pleia2 to gather content for flyers 20:22:28 * meetingology pleia2 to gather content for flyers 20:22:34 and wikipage is set 20:22:38 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)