16:57 <popey> #startmeeting Music Meeting
16:57 <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Nov 20 16:57:52 2015 UTC.  The chair is popey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
16:57 <meetingology> 
16:57 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
16:57 <popey> yo yo!
16:57 <popey> Hows it hanging chaps?
16:58 <ahayzen> yo, good thanks how are you doing?
16:58 <popey> great
16:58 <popey> i had a paniced message from design earlier
16:58 <ahayzen> popey, did you see the email from Jouni ?
16:58 <popey> which prompted the mail from jouni :)
16:58 <ahayzen> hahaha
16:58 <vthompson> Good, how are you guys?
16:58 <popey> Note to self, don't use the word "prototype" with designers
16:59 <popey> they think you mean "no code has been written"
16:59 <ahayzen> haha
16:59 <ahayzen> i use the term, tracer bullet
16:59 <vthompson> Surely a prototype has to be working to be a prototype ;)
16:59 <ahayzen> (from the book pragmatic programmer)
17:00 <ahayzen> vthompson, remember they do prototypes/mockups in like html5 etc then translate them to QML etc
17:00 <popey> they thought i meant a html mockup or something
17:00 <popey> yeah
17:00 <popey> anyway, all clear now :)
17:00 <ahayzen> :-)
17:00 <vthompson> Did Jouni reply? Do we know if they are purposefully not using the Page Sections?
17:01 <ahayzen> yeah their latest mockup looked quite primitive to before
17:01 <ahayzen> also note due to the way APL works the now playing will be its own 'thing' for now
17:02 <ahayzen> as if you change the base element (the left side) it then clears anything on top (the right side)...
17:02 <popey> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8jttdhjvpytdwj1/10inchtablet.png?dl=0
17:02 <ahayzen> so if we used it for their 2 column design, when you switched tabs we would have to repush the now playing each time
17:02 <popey> thats the target I think
17:02 <ahayzen> it'd be fuggerly
17:02 <vthompson> How much work do you suppose it is to instead just have the Now Playing be the secondary panel?
17:02 <popey> the 3 column view doesn't work too well
17:03 <ahayzen> we can like make our own sortof APL thing anyway
17:03 <ahayzen> once the new headers land
17:03 <ahayzen> or new new headers
17:03 <ahayzen> vthompson, i will talk to Tim see what he says about having the right side static
17:04 <ahayzen> as just the way APL is/was done it meant if you changed the left the right is cleared IIRC
17:04 * ahayzen needs to get back into the APL stuff once bgplaylists is done
17:04 <vthompson> I also wonder if the secondary panel should be resizable if we use the Now Playing there
17:04 <vthompson> *shouldn't
17:04 <ahayzen> yeah like static 40GU
17:04 <ahayzen> or whatever
17:05 <popey> +1
17:05 <ahayzen> so 50 | 40 on a 90GU display
17:05 <vthompson> Which kinda removes all the benefits of using APL
17:05 <ahayzen> yup
17:05 <popey> well, only so much
17:05 <popey> its the reverse of the email
17:05 <ahayzen> we just need that header component so we can have two sets of header actions
17:05 <popey> where the static column is on the left
17:06 <vthompson> Jouni's email makes it seem like they want just 1 header
17:06 <vthompson> *header actions section
17:06 <ahayzen> vthompson, that is confusing to the user though when you have a listview on the left and right
17:06 <ahayzen> <- pro designer speaking here of course ;-)
17:07 <vthompson> Perhaps not if you view the Now Playing component as a "sub-view" of sorts
17:07 <vthompson> Note that he has the add to playlist action next to the title
17:07 <ahayzen> but then we would have to block you going into multiselect mode on the left and right
17:08 <ahayzen> hehe we can tell him we have already bumped to the new listitems :-)
17:08 <vthompson> I was also thinking the other day that we should remove the "trash bin" clear queue action. Seems like a silly thing to have when the other action (add to playlist) pertains to just the current item
17:08 <ahayzen> although i heard about some ListItemLayout thing as well to improve performance ?
17:09 <ahayzen> vthompson, i think... when on the Full View we should just have Add To Playlist...when on the Queue we should just had the Trash
17:09 <ahayzen> as the Add To Playlist is confusing on the queue view
17:09 <vthompson> Yea, that could make more sense. I'm not a fan of the actions switching between the two, but that'd eliminate confusion
17:10 <ahayzen> yeah, but now they are more like their own pages due to the head sections i think it'll be better
17:10 <vthompson> That's true
17:10 <ahayzen> hmm i think i'd like something somewhere between Jouni's mockup and our current APL
17:11 <ahayzen> like the head sections instead of tabs, i think would work really well on a tablet/PC
17:11 <ahayzen> and the 3 column work well on a desktop, maybe not tablet
17:11 <vthompson> I think so too, right now the panel divider cuts through the sections, but I'd imagine that's something that we or sdk can fix
17:12 <ahayzen> vthompson, thats an SDK bug
17:12 <vthompson> cool
17:12 <ahayzen> bug 1489591
17:12 <ahayzen> ...ugh no bot? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1489591
17:12 <vthompson> I'd imagine once SDK has a better pattern for 3 panels, we'll move to using it
17:13 <ahayzen> i think we should continue prototyping ... so maybe make one like Jouni's and then see what else we can add to it
17:13 <popey> yeah, we dont have a 3 panel ui anywhere
17:13 <popey> dekko maybe actually
17:13 <popey> email list, thread list, thread view
17:13 <ahayzen> interesting
17:13 <popey> we should check the dekko design docs
17:13 <popey> I don't think any recent mockups I have seen have it
17:13 <ahayzen> as we would have like Album list | Song List | Queue/Now Playling
17:13 <popey> most are two panel only
17:14 <vthompson> Email is the only other type of app that I can really picture using 3 panels... but I only use 2 in what I use
17:14 <popey> irc :)
17:14 <ahayzen> weather ;-) lol
17:14 * popey is looking at it right now
17:14 <popey> channel list, user list, chat
17:14 <ahayzen> docviewer? maybe
17:14 <popey> not in that order
17:15 <popey> docviewer is a stretch
17:15 <popey> 3rd one for properties?
17:15 <vthompson> True, I don't think it's the paneling that's the problem, but the adaptive pages
17:15 <popey> actually, doc list, slide list, slides
17:15 <ahayzen> yeah idk depends if you had previews in the list
17:15 <ahayzen> yeah something like that
17:15 <ahayzen> i think there is definitely a case for 3 columns
17:16 <ahayzen> on large devices, whether that is only TV/Desktop or 10" tablet as well is the question
17:16 <vthompson> I think there are also cases for 2 columns and perhaps a row underneath or somehting
17:16 <ahayzen> like look at *any* media player on the desktop, they all have 3
17:16 <ahayzen> yeah
17:16 <vthompson> But in terms of just the adaptive layouts maybe 2 panels is enough
17:16 <ahayzen> ok i think we should continue prototyping and discussing designs
17:16 <vthompson> yea
17:16 <ahayzen> maybe me and Victor can use Google Drive Drawings to mock up a mishmash of stuff :-)
17:17 <vthompson> I'll get my crayons!
17:17 <ahayzen> \o/
17:18 <ahayzen> ok other than checking Jouni can run the APL branch, is that all for convergence ?
17:18 <popey> would you guys be around for a hangout next week with jouni and james maybe?
17:18 <popey> we tend to be good at bashing out these issues in hangouts
17:18 <ahayzen> possibly, depending when but likely yes
17:18 <vthompson> Using GridView to further gut some of our code is good news!
17:18 <ahayzen> vthompson, yeah GridView makes Florian happy :-D
17:19 <ahayzen> i reckon our memory usage will drop alot
17:19 <ahayzen> as remember the card view doesn't destroy cards
17:19 <ahayzen> and now the thumbnailer is fast enough it can destroy/incubate
17:19 <vthompson> I might be around. It's a holiday (Thanksgiving) next week. So I'll be off work later in the week
17:19 <ahayzen> vthompson, what days are good?
17:19 <ahayzen> like tues/weds ?
17:19 <vthompson> Probably just Friday
17:20 <ahayzen> haha
17:20 <vthompson> I'll be working M-W
17:20 * ahayzen has a coursework hand in on friday
17:20 <ahayzen> but may have 1hr
17:20 <ahayzen> thursday ?
17:20 <vthompson> Thursday is a holiday, but earlier in the day I could probably jump on a hangout
17:20 <popey> ok, i'll have a chat to them on monday and we can see what we get out of them
17:20 <popey> oh, it's turkey day isnt it?
17:21 <popey> then shopping day
17:21 <ahayzen> be like 12/13 UTC+
17:21 <vthompson> indeed \o/
17:21 <popey> ok, scrap that idea then
17:21 <ahayzen> as i have lectures in the morning
17:21 <popey> lets just get comprehensive details from the guys on monday
17:21 <popey> I'll ensure that
17:21 <ahayzen> i think we just prototype and make a few mockups
17:21 <popey> ya
17:21 <ahayzen> and suggest ideas/critique it
17:21 <popey> ok
17:21 <ahayzen> \o/
17:22 <ahayzen> ok so ... next item!
17:22 <ahayzen> bgplaylists? ;-)
17:22 <vthompson> I see new qtmultimedia packages have landed in the silo
17:22 <ahayzen> vthompson, they are handing the silo over to QA
17:23 <vthompson> Do they expect to know if it'll land today?
17:23 <ahayzen> only real issue is the removeItem one, but that'll be fixed with removeItems() in the next silo
17:23 <ahayzen> i think they are just hoping for feedback soonish
17:23 * ahayzen checks the trello board
17:23 <vthompson> k
17:23 <ahayzen> https://trello.com/c/ZbIlG7nr/2505-571-ubuntu-landing-009-qtubuntu-media-media-hub-jhodapp
17:23 <ahayzen> also i have a few items to fix our end...
17:24 <ahayzen> - on button press make orange/blue like indicator
17:24 <ahayzen> - fix removeItems() by using itemCount or listening to onItemRemoved or wait for removeItems()
17:24 <ahayzen> - autopilot currentMeta
17:24 <ahayzen> - queue on item remove is slow due to round trip, extra animation to fade out?
17:24 <vthompson> I agree some fade animation on delete would be good
17:25 <ahayzen> popey, vthompson, let me know of anything you find when testing and i'll let you know if its known or not
17:25 <ahayzen> as there are alot of bugs and lists lol
17:25 <popey> ok
17:26 <ahayzen> and there are a few bugs in mh that we will hopefully have landed before OTA9
17:26 <vthompson> Is the bug where the indicator won't let you skip to the beginning of the first track after 5 seconds going to be fixed?
17:26 <ahayzen> vthompson, thats on the list
17:26 <ahayzen> - pad.lv/1518159 - metadata in indcator-sound (mh)
17:26 <ahayzen> - pad.lv/1518152 -  removeItem is slow, so can we have removeItems(list)
17:26 <ahayzen> - pad.lv/1518157 - Playlist.Random | Playlist.Loop
17:26 <ahayzen> - pad.lv/1518160 - suspend sync
17:26 <ahayzen> - pad.lv/1517485 - indicator not repeat and >5s not previous on first track
17:26 <ahayzen> were all from my bug reporting session last night
17:26 <ahayzen> and there are others https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.tag=bgplaylist
17:27 <ahayzen> but ^^ are the main ones i would like + the save()/load() one
17:27 <ahayzen> (so we can purge our slow queue db thing)
17:27 <ahayzen> as that is what is making everything in the queue slow (appending/removing)
17:29 <ahayzen> the 'suspend sync' one there is the biggy
17:29 <vthompson> Is it a known bug that multiselect delete of a few items that includes the currently playing item kills the whole queue?
17:29 <ahayzen> vthompson, yup
17:29 <ahayzen> vthompson, thats the thing i said about removeItem being broken
17:29 <vthompson> ok
17:29 <ahayzen> vthompson, its super difficult our side, so going to wait for the removeItems(list) method
17:30 <ahayzen> (as everything is async so you don't know which have removed and when making all the index offsets foobar'd)
17:31 <ahayzen> vthompson, oh but maybe not about removing the current item
17:31 <ahayzen> i'll add that to my list to check if it is the same issue or not
17:32 <vthompson> That's more or less it for bgplaylists
17:33 <vthompson> More testing needed
17:33 <ahayzen> yup testing testing testing
17:33 <popey> do we have a readme with 'how to test'?
17:33 <popey> for bg playlists?
17:33 <popey> (we should)
17:33 <ahayzen> erm
17:34 <vthompson> Isn't there a set of manual tests?
17:34 <ahayzen> install silo009 and the music-app branch ?
17:34 <ahayzen> and Jim made manual test cases
17:34 <vthompson> I don't think we need a README in the repo for testing media-hub
17:34 <popey> no, i meant a pad
17:35 <popey> just something temporary in case we want more people testing?
17:35 <ahayzen> ah
17:35 <vthompson> oh, ahayzen do you know where Jim has that stuff
17:35 <ahayzen> that google doc ?
17:35 <ahayzen> and in the email
17:35 <popey> ok
17:35 <popey> np then :)
17:35 <ahayzen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlan/media-hub#Test_MPRIS_Control
17:36 <vthompson> Just found that as well :)
17:36 <popey> :)
17:36 <ahayzen> ok is that enough for bgplaylists?
17:37 <popey> think so
17:38 <popey> Anything else to cover?
17:38 <ahayzen> ok, our landing for OTA8 is still in the QA queue?
17:38 <ahayzen> and awaiting translations ?
17:38 * popey checks
17:38 <vthompson> Don't think so. Streaming status?
17:38 <popey> https://trello.com/c/uYUfQkaw/2496-679-music-app-popey
17:38 <popey> failed :S
17:38 <ahayzen> mandatory streaming status
17:38 <ahayzen> failed!
17:38 <ahayzen> bro's what happened
17:39 <ahayzen> "While doing searches, the keyboard disappears and reappears after every keystroke. This didn't happen on the previous version of the app."
17:39 <ahayzen> hmmmmm thought we fixed that :-P
17:39 <vthompson> We did!
17:39 <vthompson> (workaround)
17:39 <vthompson> Did we give them the wrong click?
17:39 <ahayzen> did they end up with the right click version lol
17:39 <popey> uhoh
17:39 <ahayzen> that was in #941
17:39 <popey> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/music/20151119/com.ubuntu.music_2.2.935_all.click
17:39 <popey> wat
17:39 <ahayzen> 935!
17:40 <ahayzen> we are at 945 now!
17:40 <popey> My fault, sorry.
17:40 <ahayzen> ok that is quite an old one, before the head sections as well lol
17:40 <popey> What should I have submitted?
17:40 <popey> 941?
17:40 <ahayzen> don't worry probably a miss communication somewhere
17:40 <ahayzen> well 941..but now 945
17:40 <ahayzen> (extra translations are now included)
17:40 <ahayzen> basically whatever is latest in trunk :-)
17:41 <popey> ok, so after the meeting I'll crank out latest trunk and re-submit
17:41 <popey> sorry
17:41 <ahayzen> will they QA today ?
17:41 <ahayzen> or monday?
17:41 <vthompson> Appologize to QA not us :)
17:41 <popey> bit late, someone in US might, will ask selene
17:41 <ahayzen> as we could wait for extra translations if monday?
17:41 <popey> hah
17:41 <ahayzen> ok think that's all
17:42 <vthompson> Unless we have word on streaming design/etc
17:43 <popey> no, karni has been assigned to the platform side
17:43 <ahayzen> coolio
17:43 <popey> but nothing from design yet
17:43 <popey> they are holding off until karni is available, which isn't yet
17:43 <popey> but it's on his list
17:44 <ahayzen> ok cool
17:45 <popey> We done for music?
17:45 <ahayzen> yah
17:45 <popey> #endmeeting