12:05 <popey> #startmeeting dekko meeting
12:05 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Aug 13 12:05:10 2015 UTC.  The chair is popey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
12:05 <meetingology> 
12:05 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
12:05 <popey> Hows it going?
12:05 <DanChapman> it's going good thanks. Yourself?
12:05 <faenil> yo
12:05 <DanChapman> hey faenil
12:06 <popey> great.
12:07 <popey> I see you updated https://bugs.launchpad.net/click-sync/+bug/1477210
12:08 <DanChapman> Yes so online accounts & msg forwarding are fixed now.
12:09 <popey> Okay.
12:09 <popey> for https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko/+bug/1421923
12:10 <DanChapman> I'm not sure what's the status of https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1425949 is or if it's even that high a priority any more now multi-select contact import is working again. I did drop it to high for dekko but I might move it to medium as we use the same approach as telegram
12:10 <popey> I had a mail from Niklas Wenzel after I left that comment #6 last week
12:10 <popey> He's been working on this but doesn't have an ETA when finished.
12:11 <popey> But I think we should also (in parallel) look at the other approach that John Lenton talked with us about last week (when he's back from vacation)
12:12 <popey> DanChapman: yes, for https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1425949 i think we should use the system we have now and drop to medium and leave a comment / update description of the master bug too?
12:13 <DanChapman> yep sounds good to me. I have been researching the server approach and tbh I would prefer it, but some won't so hopefully niklas get's somewhere with it in polld
12:13 <DanChapman> Yes let's drop that one to medium and leave a comment
12:13 <popey> +1
12:15 <popey> So really notifications is the big one.
12:16 <DanChapman> Yep :-) when will John be back from holidays?
12:17 <DanChapman> if you know that is
12:17 * popey checks the calendar
12:18 <popey> hmm, can't tell. poked him
12:20 <DanChapman> :-) on a different note. Is the plan still to rename to "Mail" or something for the official build?
12:21 <popey> Welcome back!
12:21 <Chipaca> ullo ullo
12:21 <popey> Good vacation?
12:22 <popey> DanChapman: I think so, yes, for the user visible parts at least, the same way we renamed reminders to notes
12:22 <DanChapman> Hey Chipaca!
12:22 <DanChapman> popey: coolio, it should be a couple of string replacements to sort that then.
12:23 <popey> yes
12:23 <Chipaca> popey: https://plus.google.com/+JohnLenton/posts/fEc5ZkHaNoE
12:24 <Chipaca> it was not the vacation i had planned, but it was good
12:24 <popey> haha!
12:24 <popey> Chipaca: On the subject of Notifications for dekko. We need to come up with a plan for implementation.
12:24 <popey> .. and if you still have some time to work on it.
12:24 <Chipaca> as to whether i have time, that's up to my boss
12:25 <Chipaca> i understand he's not immediately opposed to it
12:26 <popey> That's the feeling I got.
12:26 <Chipaca> there's one thing that can be done early, with no server work at all, and that's setting up decko to trivially handle push notifications
12:27 <Chipaca> then the client handler can grow into something non-trivial separately from the server
12:28 <Chipaca> then the server and client can be tied together "properly"
12:29 <Chipaca> DanChapman: do you know if the go imap libraries are good enough for what you want on the server side?
12:29 <Chipaca> otherwise that's a double question we need answering
12:29 <Chipaca> ie, what do we need the imap libraries to support
12:30 <Chipaca> and what do the go imap libraries support
12:30 <DanChapman> Chipaca: ok then, so Dekko currently has a pretty basic push handler to work our notification hack using the tweak-geek prevent suspension approach. So I can just expand on the work from that
12:30 <Chipaca> DanChapman: i don't think those are *push* notifications ;-)
12:31 <Chipaca> (i could be wrong, but why would push me involved in an on-the-device polling mechanism?)
12:32 <Chipaca> DanChapman: http://chipaca.com/post/113074352017/poke might be a useful tool for you
12:34 <DanChapman> I havn't looked extensively at the go-imap library. It seems it should be up to the job. As long as it supports a large portion of the IMAP4rv1 spec it should be fine. I'll have a play with the go lib and see if I find any potential issues
12:34 <Chipaca> DanChapman: that would be very useful, thank you
12:35 <Chipaca> and if not, then we need to look at python
12:35 <DanChapman> would node-imap be another possible?
12:35 <Chipaca> DanChapman: in theory, yes. In have-Chipaca-do-it-quickly, probably no
12:36 <popey> :)
12:36 <DanChapman> hah :-D
12:36 <Chipaca> the last time i wrote javascript, onclick="" was avant garde
12:36 <Chipaca> *onmouseover="" i meant
12:36 <Chipaca> i don't think onclick existed outside of form buttons
12:36 <Chipaca> anyway!
12:37 <Chipaca> probably impractical, but i'm not opposed to it, especially if it would mean it's more likely somebody else picks up maintenance
12:37 <Chipaca> also there's the example server done in node, which would be a good starting point i guess
12:37 <popey> It also needs to be something we are "allowed" to host
12:38 <popey> don't think we have any node stuff in the DC?
12:38 <Chipaca> i do believe we do
12:38 <Chipaca> just not very publicly
12:38 <popey> ah okay
12:39 <Chipaca> certainly go would get us friendlier looks
12:39 <popey> ya
12:40 <popey> Chipaca: are you familiar with what we need to do to make a service deployable by IS?
12:40 <popey> I assume we need to get the ball rolling once we actually have something to deploy of course, but it needs to be built to be juju deployable?
12:41 <Chipaca> i'd have to check with martin, but i know who in his team i'd pester to get that done
12:41 <popey> okay
12:41 <Chipaca> i haven't done it myself in a while
12:41 <Chipaca> but it's not frightening
12:42 <Chipaca> popey: how many users do we need to size this to?
12:42 <popey> Ugh.
12:42 <Chipaca> say 2 Ughs just in case
12:42 <popey> :)
12:43 <popey> I honestly don't know.
12:43 <Chipaca> so we'll to plan some load balancing and queuing just in case
12:43 <popey> "Lots"
12:43 <Chipaca> s/to/need to/
12:43 <popey> It will (for some time) be the _only_ email client
12:43 <popey> and we will be shipping to big countries like India and Russia which have a thing for non-google email systems
12:43 <davmor2> Chipaca: stop trying to make popey sound like a caveman
12:43 <Chipaca> DanChapman: have you thought of how you want the user interaction to be?
12:44 <Chipaca> davmor2: there is no try.
12:44 <popey> Tap notification -> Take user directly to email ?
12:44 <Chipaca> sorry, i meant
12:44 <Chipaca> the part where the user gives us their credentials and firstborn
12:45 <Chipaca> that is
12:45 <Chipaca> is it via a website?
12:45 <Chipaca> or is it directly on the device?
12:45 <DanChapman> It would be nice to have it as part of the account setup process and if user allows push those details to the server, or they can do it from a web interface.
12:45 <Chipaca> DanChapman: yes, that would be nice :)
12:46 <Chipaca> DanChapman: can we do the first part, and schedule the second part for Laters?
12:46 <Chipaca> or is the dual path essential?
12:46 <Chipaca> the reason i ask
12:46 <Chipaca> is that web and a dumb backend server have drastically different usage patterns
12:46 <DanChapman> Sounds good to me. I wouldn't say essential just a "nice to have"
12:46 <Chipaca> huzzah then :)
12:49 <Chipaca> i'm not sure how to advance this conversation at this point
12:49 <Chipaca> i feel like you're expecting me to start giving you dates for stuff
12:49 <Chipaca> but maybe i've been in too many management conversations :)
12:50 <popey> :)
12:50 <DanChapman> hah :-) well for now I will play with the go-imap lib and report back on my findings. Then we can take it from there?
12:51 <Chipaca> ok. meanwhile i'll poke rsalveti wrt me working on this
12:51 <Chipaca> DanChapman: dekko is multi-account, yes?
12:51 <popey> Excellent, thanks Chipaca
12:51 <DanChapman> yes
12:51 <Chipaca> cool. thinking about the push message format. getting ahead of myself, in other words
12:53 * popey sends invite to this meeting to Chipaca :)
12:54 <popey> Ok, anything else to discuss?
12:54 <DanChapman> is there any restrictions on what a push helper is allowed to do. Like will I be able to open an imap connection and fetch message?
12:54 <DanChapman> *messages
12:54 <popey> It runs in the context of your app I thought, so has the same apparmor policy?
12:56 <Chipaca> DanChapman: it runs with your apps permissions, with a restricted apparmor profile
12:56 <Chipaca> DanChapman: you can basically do dbus stuff, and read/write to your xdg
12:56 <Chipaca> DanChapman: and you have 1 second to do it in
12:56 <Chipaca> DanChapman: notably, no networking
12:57 <Chipaca> DanChapman: however, a push message is 1k
12:57 <Chipaca> DanChapman: we should be able to get a decent summary in there
12:58 <popey> okay
12:58 <DanChapman> Ahh ok thanks. I was thinking how to speed up launching after tapping the notification
12:58 <DanChapman> Anyway, were well over time XD
12:59 <popey> We can continue in #dekko of course :)
12:59 <popey> Thanks chaps.
12:59 <popey> #endmeeting