19:30 <popey> #startmeeting Music meeting
19:30 <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jul 24 19:30:30 2015 UTC.  The chair is popey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
19:30 <meetingology> 
19:30 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
19:30 * ahayzen tries to remember how these meetings work as we haven't had one in ages
19:30 <popey> agenda!
19:30 <ahayzen> \o/
19:31 <popey> What do you have to discuss? :)
19:31 <vthompson> Releases. Convergence?
19:31 <ahayzen> so what we are currently working on:
19:31 <ahayzen> - random fixes from bugs
19:31 <popey> Yes, both good topics.
19:31 <ahayzen> - background playlists
19:31 <ahayzen> - convergence
19:31 <ahayzen> - improving unit testing
19:31 <popey> lets take background playlists first as that should be easy?
19:32 <vthompson> On the topic of convergence we can now land the last mp that was plagued by the rotation bug
19:32 <ahayzen> oh sweet, do i need to land yours into mine?
19:32 <ahayzen> then mine into trunk?
19:32 <vthompson> jhodapp was just telling us that he's baking a new deb of qtmultimedia for us to use
19:32 <ahayzen> and ^^
19:32 <vthompson> Yea, you'll need mine to land into yours (test it and review as well)
19:33 <ahayzen> also all the qtmultimedia work will be going back upstream hopefully
19:33 <vthompson> which is pretty awesome
19:33 <ahayzen> we've been talking to the qtmultimedia maintainer about some gaps that we found in the API (specifically no move() method)
19:33 <ahayzen> (which they agreed was missing \o/)
19:34 <vthompson> I don't think we have a great idea of the timeframe for background playlists though
19:34 <vthompson> but we should try to move that forward
19:34 <ahayzen> Jim just literally told us that his QML app is now working so we can start firing music-app at it to find more issues
19:34 <ahayzen> i sense we are talking in weeks
19:34 <popey> indeed, I figured it was one we could knock off the agenda as it's not something we can fix right now.
19:34 <vthompson> That'd be reasonable if there aren't too many issues found
19:34 <ahayzen> like the silo states that the packages have to be approved upstream before they can land
19:34 <popey> so beyond OTA-6?
19:34 <ahayzen> and they need to then land into a OTA
19:34 <ahayzen> and then we need to test against it
19:35 <popey> so maybe that lands in OTA6 and we follow that?
19:35 <vthompson> Really, approval from upstream before it lands?
19:35 <ahayzen> yup
19:35 <ahayzen> thats what it says
19:35 <vthompson> So OTA6 is 5ish weeks away?
19:35 <ahayzen> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/citrain_dashboard/#?q=ubuntu%2Flanding-038
19:35 <ahayzen> "Mirv/20150707: Requirement: qtmultimedia patch must be submitted to upstream codereview and approved before publishing."
19:36 <ahayzen> i think Jim is going to attempt to get his packages into OTA6ish
19:36 <ahayzen> so we'll be testing along side...whether we are ready in time is the real question but we could land shortly afterwards
19:37 <ahayzen> i think we'll need todo things in phases as well.. eg do not remove the lifecycle exception at the same time
19:37 <popey> yes
19:37 <popey> +1
19:37 <vthompson> I think that'd work. Make sure we aren't broken by the changes, then work towards refreshing the app shortly after OTA6
19:37 <ahayzen> (as we have loads of other things bound to that)
19:37 <ahayzen> yup agreed
19:37 <vthompson> Obviously we can and should start working it now though
19:38 <ahayzen> we have a branch :-)
19:38 <ahayzen> and hopefully debs for over the weekend
19:38 <ahayzen> hopefully alot more should be working this time around so i'll be able to dig further
19:38 <ahayzen> i had to stop last time as not much was working
19:39 <vthompson> So anything more to discuss concerning bg playlists? I think that's about it.
19:39 <ahayzen> same next!
19:40 <ahayzen> what was the next item?
19:40 <vthompson> k, convergence. I think we had an email chain with Jouni for him to re-review our design that we had for MWC
19:40 <ahayzen> yeah rotation was blocking things mostly so now OTA5 is out we can reinvestigate and progress
19:41 <ahayzen> oh btw the sdk bugs related to the listitems are fix committed so should be on OTA6
19:41 <ahayzen> *in OTA6
19:41 <vthompson> That's awesome. I assume it is or will be in wily soon?
19:41 <ahayzen> erm idk would have to investigate
19:41 <ahayzen> so hopefully we can land that after OTA6 which cuts *alot* of our code :-)
19:41 <popey> Awesome.
19:42 <ahayzen> there are alot of random things related to convergence that i wanna start working on but we have no design for...
19:42 <vthompson> Cool, we'll have to keep 2 branches for OTA6 then 1) bg playlists and 2) UI tookit updates (listitems)
19:42 <vthompson> Or should we just keep them all in 1 branch?
19:42 <ahayzen> before did we just say to 'get on with it' and then ask the designers to review that implementation
19:42 <vthompson> 2 seperate MPs seems better
19:43 <ahayzen> just leave them in the MPs until they land?
19:43 <vthompson> I assume so. Did you have a list items MP?
19:43 <popey> Do we have a list of things you're after for convergence?
19:43 <ahayzen> yah
19:43 <vthompson> ah cool, that's right
19:43 <ahayzen> i have a list of things on a spreadsheet and in my head :-)
19:43 <ahayzen> https://code.launchpad.net/~ahayzen/music-app/refactor-use-sdk-listitems/+merge/261328
19:44 <ahayzen> and https://code.launchpad.net/~ahayzen/music-app/refactor-pull-now-playing-sidebar/+merge/253839 and https://code.launchpad.net/~vthompson/music-app/fix-orientation/+merge/265622 we should try and land *now* for the first stage of convergence
19:44 <vthompson> Agreed, they've been unblocked by OTA5
19:44 <ahayzen> popey, i started making a list of my personal TODOs/Gaps/wishlist items here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JHIQrszKFuypUT-nSbJLC3n3ovDZRnsAMV1U8g96AsM/edit#gid=0
19:45 <ahayzen> (need to add more things to it)
19:45 <vthompson> ahayzen, was the convergence items in your "TODOs/Gaps" doc?
19:45 <ahayzen> some of them are the WIP things as well
19:45 <ahayzen> i plan to add more of them
19:45 <ahayzen> but things like favouriting and most played could be thought of as convergence initially
19:46 <popey> these look like work items :)
19:46 <ahayzen> "editing of metatags" is definitely a converged thing
19:46 <vthompson> Sure, I agree.
19:46 <ahayzen> WI for now...i plan to expand :-)
19:46 <popey> :)
19:46 <ahayzen> feel free to dump extra things in there
19:46 <ahayzen> like "oh itunes/RB does this "
19:47 <popey> mind if I add this doc to the core apps music page on developer.u.c?
19:47 <vthompson> Is there a timeframe for when the UI toolkit convergence updates will land?
19:47 <popey> I don't know.
19:47 <popey> before october I imagine :S
19:48 <popey> s/imagine/hope/
19:48 <ahayzen> popey, erm maybe none of it is official its just a scrapbook lol
19:48 <popey> ok
19:48 <ahayzen> probably better just to link the blueprint?
19:48 <ahayzen> as they are ones we have 'chosen' todo this cycle
19:48 <popey> we should formalise into work items and put in the blueprint any that are missing and we decide are definite goals
19:48 <popey> ya
19:49 <ahayzen> exactly think of that list as a wishlist/gaps that we then use for formulate the blueprint WIs
19:49 <popey> k
19:49 <ahayzen> ok is that all for convergence?
19:49 <ahayzen> ... oh i asked about whether we should wait on design.. or just do things ?
19:49 <vthompson> Since some of them are kinda scattered/unrelated, we could just file bugs and give them a priority as well
19:49 <ahayzen> yeah exactly
19:49 <popey> +1
19:49 <ahayzen> it was mainly just so i don't forget things aha
19:50 <popey> :)
19:50 <ahayzen> "oh that would be really cool"... 2 days later .." oh what was that really cool thing again?"
19:50 <vthompson> 1 thing I think we need to do is get design to review the app through the eyes of whatever will be going into the UI toolkit. I think we should try to be good citizens and make use of whatever convergence features they plan to land
19:51 <vthompson> Some of that might change the way we do things in the app... like tooltips, how listitem actions get shown, etc
19:51 <ahayzen> yeah we should talk with the sdk guys to find the WIP branches so we can try stuff out
19:51 <ahayzen> and i guess we should both really be trying/using unity8
19:51 <ahayzen> (if the damn ubuntu SSO would sign in i would)
19:52 <popey> Well, that's harder than you'd think (using unity8)
19:52 <vthompson> Yea, I was unsuccessful in trying it out
19:52 <ahayzen> i was .. close..
19:52 <popey> it has holes like swiss cheese
19:52 <popey> you can't install clicks on the desktop
19:52 <popey> can't run browser
19:52 <popey> etc
19:53 <ahayzen> ugh yup i read the bugs :'( and found out
19:53 <ahayzen> ok is that all for convergence?
19:53 <popey> So I would just stay away from unity8 for now
19:53 <ahayzen> ;-)
19:54 <vthompson> In terms of ahayzen's list of holes in the app that would be good for convergence, it might be nice to really to get a few of the missing "features" prioritized
19:54 <ahayzen> yeah
19:54 <ahayzen> i'll try and compile a proper list of convegence things like right click menu, scrollbars, etc
19:55 <vthompson> oh you do have a priority column, I suppose
19:55 * ahayzen wonders how long we can hold out as a QML-only app until we have to drop to QML/c++
19:55 <ahayzen> i do :-)
19:55 <ahayzen> and "primary platform"
19:55 <vthompson> FOREVER!
19:56 <ahayzen> but but what happens if we want to read a DAAP share or want to sync to your mobile...
19:56 <vthompson> popey, so is there any action we should take to get more convergence critiques from Design or the public?
19:56 <ahayzen> "the platform must write services"
19:56 <ahayzen> is the correct answer heeh
19:56 <ahayzen> *hehe
19:56 <popey> hm
19:57 <popey> So there's two targets for convergence.
19:57 <ahayzen> oh and are we targeting primarily a tablet or desktop convergence?
19:57 <vthompson> Also, is there, like, a stakeholder that might help us prioritize what should be added?
19:57 <popey> Snappy based / Unity 8 desktop
19:57 <popey> And the converged device.
19:58 <popey> Stakeholders are really Joe O and Pat
19:58 <popey> the snappy based unity8 desktop will have an early (as in preview) version for 15.10 (october)
19:58 <vthompson> K, if they wanted to take a stab at what the app needs on the converged device that'd be helpful
19:58 <popey> the converged device is "this year"
19:59 <popey> I have asked this :)
19:59 <vthompson> I think Joe did give us a list last year
19:59 <ahayzen> hah
19:59 <popey> The general guidance I have had is "keep doing what you're doing"
19:59 <popey> basically, there's no specific requirements for these apps
19:59 <popey> We have some freedom there.
19:59 <ahayzen> so converged device does *not* include such things as syncing from desktop to mobile
19:59 <ahayzen> that would be something of unity8 desktop
19:59 <popey> and we have reached and exceeded minimum viable product
20:00 <popey> converged device _is_ desktop and mobile :)
20:00 <popey> both in one
20:00 <popey> \o/ convergence
20:00 <ahayzen> no but like a unity8 desktop you would want to sync to your phone the music... where as the device when plugged in there is no need as the music is already on there
20:00 <popey> Sync from my point of view is "drag files over mtp to ~/Music, or put stuff on an SD card"
20:00 <ahayzen> so thats a WI that can be skipped
20:00 <vthompson> It wouldn't be our responsibility anyway
20:01 <ahayzen> thats not 'sync' that my grandma could use
20:01 <popey> grandma wouldn't have a pocket desktop in 2015
20:01 <popey> maybe next year
20:01 <ahayzen> in 2017 maybe ;-)
20:01 <popey> lulz
20:01 <popey> Does that answer your questions vthompson ?
20:01 <ahayzen> so that sortof stuff we can skip
20:02 <vthompson> So, unit tests....
20:02 <ahayzen> \o/
20:02 <vthompson> ahayzen, you have all that working now?
20:02 <vthompson> popey, yea it does
20:02 <ahayzen> basically in light of all the bugs saying having a "#" breaks the app or having a "?" in the filepath breaks the app
20:02 <ahayzen> i'm writing tests which will use every possible character and test mh/ms2/thumbnailer
20:02 <ahayzen> from our point of view in QML
20:03 <ahayzen> and then i hope to expand it to also test different file formats
20:03 <vthompson> do you plan on having those automatically run?
20:03 <ahayzen> and check that they all play and return metadata
20:03 <ahayzen> possibly... at the moment you have to manually do stuff but i have a script that can 'automatically' do it
20:03 <vthompson> Because if we get it working, maybe we could have just the problematic characters run as part of CI
20:03 <ahayzen> the problem is you can't do mocking in qmlunit tests from my understanding (as its all in QML/JS)
20:04 <vthompson> ah
20:04 <ahayzen> so i have a bash script which copies the audio over...then you wait for MS2 to run.. then you run the tests
20:04 <vthompson> Getting it in as part of CI doesn't really seem necessary since it is more or less testing other services (mh, ms2, thumbnailer)
20:04 <ahayzen> but managed to get a first run working on device thanks to b alloons and m zanetti
20:05 <ahayzen> yeah its more for our sanity
20:05 <ahayzen> but tbh i feel some of the other services have weak QML tests or it is considered a second class compared to their c++ support so its good to check that with our own data it works as we expect
20:06 <ahayzen> and we can then check things like the encoding are as we expect
20:06 <ahayzen> i hope to have a first cut of this over the weekend
20:06 <vthompson> agreed, and we can easily determine where things aren't working. whereas now we just assume if it's broken in mh, well, it's probably broken in ms2 as well
20:07 <ahayzen> yeah
20:07 <ahayzen> and we could find that a & breaks somethig or a * or something
20:07 <vthompson> So, to backtrack a bit. Should we maybe try to solicit responses for the community once we get the first cut of the converged view in trunk?
20:07 <ahayzen> +1
20:07 <vthompson> Seems like something we should get a blog post or something out about
20:08 <ahayzen> i started to wonder if it would be cool to poll for one of the 'next features'
20:08 <vthompson> It'd be kinda nice to coordinate something
20:08 <ahayzen> eg things that are of the same priority put a poll on app dev community
20:08 <vthompson> Yea, that would help. I just don't want to have something release and then 90% of the public go "this is shit because I can't favorite a track"
20:08 <ahayzen> like do you want - favouriting or - most played to be implemented first ...  or - right click menus - scrollbars
20:09 <ahayzen> obviously high priority things we just do
20:09 <ahayzen> but the low things we ask the community what they want us todo first
20:09 <ahayzen> what do you think?
20:09 <popey> +1
20:09 <vthompson> I agree. Let's try to do some social media soliciting once the branches land
20:09 <popey> I like getting community involvement
20:10 <ahayzen> \o/
20:10 <ahayzen> 'COMMUNITY' ~Jono
20:10 <vthompson> It's been awhile since we've had any buzz around the app. It'd be kinda nice to generate some again
20:10 <vthompson> Might be able to get more code contributors as well
20:10 <ahayzen> yeah we've mainly just been bug fixing since OTA3/4 .. not that that is a bad thing
20:11 <popey> Maybe a G+ poll
20:11 <ahayzen> yeah thats what i reckon on the app dev community
20:11 <popey> listing 3 or 4 smaller features, and one random off-the-wall one :)
20:11 <popey> see what they go for :)
20:11 <ahayzen> yeah :-)
20:11 <vthompson> cool, that sounds great to me
20:11 <ahayzen> \o/
20:11 <popey> ok, when?
20:12 <ahayzen> well shall we all build that list of convergence items over the next few days
20:12 <vthompson> We can start doing this stuff once the mps land
20:12 <ahayzen> then we can pick off that
20:12 <ahayzen> and yeah get the initial base of convergence code in
20:12 <vthompson> True, I guess we can do the poll whenever
20:12 <ahayzen> some could be blocked on the SDK i guess
20:13 <ahayzen> but i'm sure we can either do custom things or work with the SDK to implement
20:13 <ahayzen> right is that all ?
20:13 <vthompson> I'll hop on IRC occasionally this wkend and ahayzen and I can coordinate stuff
20:14 <vthompson> I think so
20:14 <ahayzen> vthompson, cool i'll let you know on hangouts when i'll be about either afternoons or evenings UK time not sure what i'm doing yet this weekend
20:14 <vthompson> ahayzen, awesome :)
20:15 <ahayzen> vthompson, as long as our usual US vs EU/Uk debates don't leak onto the IRC channels ;-)
20:15 <vthompson> So how you guys like this weather we're having?
20:15 <vthompson> haha
20:15 <popey> :)
20:15 <ahayzen> vthompson, oh i found out about PM vs P.M. ;-)
20:15 <popey> Ok, so short term, a release is on the cards?
20:16 <ahayzen> oh yeah and i sense a click release soon?
20:16 <ahayzen> just land the remaining bug fix mps then go before the convergence ones land?
20:16 <vthompson> Yea, I don't see any other things we need to land in the near term
20:16 <vthompson> are there remaining bug fix mps?
20:16 <ahayzen> nope just https://code.launchpad.net/~vthompson/music-app/fix-ap-instructions/+merge/265218
20:17 <ahayzen> ok we'll do some testing over the weekend and if all good go on monday?
20:17 <vthompson> +1
20:17 <ahayzen> then we can land stuff into trunk after that?
20:17 <popey> now is a good time, the QA queue is empty
20:17 <popey> https://trello.com/b/AE3swczu/qa-testing-requests-for-questions-ping-eu-jibel-us-jfunk-or-ubuntu-qa-on-ubuntu-ci-eng
20:17 <ahayzen> vthompson, oh and the weather is Wet
20:18 <popey> Ok, so ping me on monday and we can do a release via QA. okay?
20:18 <ahayzen> yup :-)
20:18 <vthompson> sounds good
20:18 <ahayzen> i'll update the readme as usual
20:18 <popey> nice one
20:18 <popey> We done with Music for today?
20:18 <ahayzen> ypu onto weather :-)
20:18 <popey> #endmeeting