11:06 <popey> #startmeeting Music app meeting
11:06 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  3 11:06:20 2014 UTC.  The chair is popey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
11:06 <meetingology> 
11:06 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
11:06 <popey> that way it's logged
11:06 <vthompson> brilliant
11:06 <popey> are we talking about https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/music-app/listitem-actions/+merge/220290 and https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/music-app/fix-progress-bar-on-stop/+merge/223013 ?
11:07 <vthompson> the second branch is https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/music-app/now-playing-queue-split/+merge/225417
11:07 <vthompson> The progress bar fix is most certainly good. Just need to make sure things are A-OK
11:07 <vthompson> The first is something we'd like to talk about in terms of behavior
11:08 <popey> ok, where shall we start?
11:08 <vthompson> currently the swipe to reveal actions, uncovers each action. As though it is underneath the item. The item that is currently being uncovered is the "active" action
11:09 <vthompson> previously, our impression was that each item was to be made to be attached to the end of the item as you swiped... so the actionss would move along with the item being swiped
11:09 <vthompson> This would mean that the right most action would be the active one and would ensure that the "active" item would be in full view.
11:10 <vthompson> hey, ahayzen--we're just discussing the design of those 2 branches we want to eventually merge
11:10 <ahayzen> yo
11:11 <ahayzen> vthompson, what have i missed?
11:11 <vthompson> echo yo
11:11 <popey> nothing so far
11:11 <vthompson> I'm trying to describe the change in behavior of the listitems branch... I think I've confused popey though :P
11:11 <popey> :D
11:11 <ahayzen> ah
11:12 <popey> yes, yes, you have
11:12 <ahayzen> basically should the actions feel like they are  'bound' to the listitem (so they move with the item)... or should they be 'revealed' such that they do not move
11:12 <vthompson> ^ more simply put
11:13 <vthompson> I think we just need to make sure everyone is on the same page.
11:13 <ahayzen> yeah
11:13 <ahayzen> as i said last night looking at that spec it looks like they want 'revealed'
11:13 <vthompson> The preliminary design spec we have has them 'revealed', but in Malta we were under the impression they were bound
11:13 <ahayzen> vthompson, i think i changed it at malta no?
11:14 * ahayzen looks at log
11:14 <vthompson> ahayzen, that could be. I probably didn't notice
11:14 <ahayzen> oh no i swapped the left/right around at malta
11:14 <vthompson> ah, I think I recall that
11:15 <popey> ok, I understand now ☻
11:15 <popey> i thought they were revealed, like they're underneath the list item being swiped
11:15 <vthompson> that's what ahayzen  has now
11:16 <ahayzen> vthompson, #494 on the 10/06 '* Tweaks to match designs * Made items appear as if they are covered not sliding' is where i switched it
11:16 <ahayzen> popey, yeah that is what the branch does currently
11:16 <popey> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/presentation/d/1nVsSFstybsOcsu1p9LfuVyYoi9Kuv3GAw7iiWX1QAwY/edit#slide=id.g383df1390_011
11:16 <popey> page 2
11:16 <vthompson> popey, yep that's the same spec we were looking at
11:16 <popey> k
11:16 <ahayzen> popey, but do you remember the old swipe delete ... that is similar to what 'bound' would do
11:16 <ahayzen> popey, yeah thats what i 've been referring to :)
11:17 <ahayzen> popey, have you played with the branch, it makes much more sense when u use it :)
11:17 <vthompson> +1
11:17 <popey> ok, one sec
11:18 <ahayzen> vthompson, meanwhile... ur comments on the now playing/queue split ... i like the idea of using the subtabs like the contacts app
11:18 <vthompson> it might be best to try to run both ways and screen record them and send it to someone in design
11:18 <ahayzen> vthompson, so then we would have Queue | Now Playing
11:19 <vthompson> ahayzen, I think that would make the most sense. I think the two should be flattened and not be 2 sepearate pages
11:19 <popey> i like the way it works now
11:19 <vthompson> BUT, I also want to make sure we do want to remove how dynamic the Now Playing page is
11:19 <ahayzen> vthompson, so within one page...but have that toggle the top to switch between
11:19 <popey> and it seems to fit with the designs I've seen
11:19 <ahayzen> :)
11:19 <popey> (now being on that merge)
11:20 <vthompson> popey, one issue I see is that the item being 'revealed' is active before the user can fully see what the action is
11:20 <popey> i think thats good
11:20 <popey> if i want to add 10 different tracks
11:20 <vthompson> whereas the other methodology would make certain the item is fully shown
11:20 <ahayzen> vthompson, it has to be at least 1/4 revealed before it activates
11:20 <popey> I dont want to have a very deliberate action every time
11:20 <popey> i like swiping a little
11:20 <popey> its faster
11:20 <vthompson> hm
11:20 <vthompson> I very much dislike that idea
11:21 <ahayzen> vthompson, i deliberately put that 1/4 buffer in so you don't accidentally activate items before u see them
11:21 <vthompson> but if that's what design had in mind I won't disagree
11:21 <popey> well, i dont know, it needs some user testing, thats for sure
11:21 <popey> thats just my gut reaction on having used it for like 5 mins
11:22 <ahayzen> hah
11:22 <popey> adding things to queue should be fast
11:22 <popey> especially when you're one handed, that pull from the right with your thumb shouldn't have to be a hyper accurate operation
11:22 <popey> "Doh! I added it a playlist by accident"
11:22 <popey> vs "Dammit, I have to be *so* precise!"
11:23 <vthompson> I don't think doing it the other way would mean you'd need to be so precise
11:23 <ahayzen> yeah although i would like to have a notification appear.... but then bottom edge may solve tht
11:23 <popey> maybe I dont understand the other way..
11:23 <vthompson> There would still be some buffer from moving from one active item to another
11:23 * ahayzen is investigating that at the moment
11:23 <ahayzen> popey, the other way is basically the same but the actions would move with the listitem as it is dragged
11:23 <vthompson> I think in order to understand the other way you might need to see both in action
11:23 <popey> the highlight of icons isnt super obvious
11:24 <popey> on my display anyway
11:24 <ahayzen> popey, so they would be initially offscreen then as u drag to the left the actions would 'slide' in
11:24 <popey> its quite subtle
11:24 <vthompson> agree that it might need to be made more obvious/less subtle in highlight
11:25 <ahayzen> spec has orange we could do that?
11:25 <vthompson> I originally liked their idea, or I thought they had an idea, of having a halo/glow around the action
11:25 <popey> +1
11:25 <popey> also, no text on the spec
11:25 <ahayzen> yeah
11:25 <ahayzen> hmm i think we need text though
11:26 <popey> this is way more usable than ever
11:26 <ahayzen> +1
11:26 <ahayzen> we just want to get it right :)
11:26 <vthompson> and it also simplifies things a bit
11:26 <ahayzen> not a bit... *massively* and resolves load of bugs :)
11:27 <vthompson> a bit massively then
11:27 <ahayzen> vthompson, remember the mess u could get in with expanding one thing then swiping another etc
11:27 <vthompson> oh yea
11:27 <popey> hm, in the playlist view, you'll implement the same for right swipe/delete ?
11:27 <ahayzen> it should be there?....
11:27 <popey> because right now you swipe and _have_ to tap
11:27 <popey> not just swipe
11:27 <ahayzen> ah
11:28 <ahayzen> playlists has an action to delete
11:28 <ahayzen> yeah that should be a swipe delete
11:28 <ahayzen> and edit as the only action
11:28 * ahayzen takes a note to fix that later
11:28 <vthompson> good point
11:28 <ahayzen> popey, the swipe to delete requires a confirm thats why you have to press
11:29 <popey> so I'd recommend a short screencast and run this past ben or john, or we could ask for a quick meeting/hangout with him
11:29 <popey> ah okay
11:29 <popey> shame
11:29 <popey> slows me down a lot
11:29 <ahayzen> popey, well doesn't require.... i told it to require :P
11:29 <popey> added a bunch of tracks with single swipe, now have to swipe and tap to remove
11:30 <ahayzen> hmm
11:30 <ahayzen> but you could say that about files... i created a file with right click create text file.... to delete i have to right click delete and confirm
11:30 <vthompson> eventually we'll have multiselect if that helps
11:30 <ahayzen> yeah and multiselect would help :)
11:30 <popey> yeah, that will
11:31 <vthompson> probably won't have in time for RTM though
11:31 <vthompson> if I were a betting man
11:31 <ahayzen> yeah i think most of this lands in the sdk for 14.10 IIRC
11:31 <ahayzen> ok so are we done on listitem actions?
11:32 <vthompson> yep, needs more discussion
11:32 <popey> Well, don't forget that RTM isn't a hard-stop
11:32 <vthompson> :)
11:32 <ahayzen> i'll patch up those issues later and then make a video or something
11:32 <vthompson> right, but is the SDK something that is a hard stop?
11:32 <popey> not sure. they will have bugs to fix
11:32 <popey> some coming from handset partner
11:32 <vthompson> I suppose
11:33 <ahayzen> so the now playing/queue split ... what do we need to discuss there?
11:33 <vthompson> So the second branch that is design-y is the splitting of the queue and now playing
11:33 <vthompson> I guess essentially I want to make sure we want to split the two
11:33 <vthompson> This is also something that massively simplifies things, but it makes the now playing page less dynamic
11:33 <ahayzen> i'm thinking like vthompson said in the mp to make to two pages into one and then use the subtab thing (contacts uses for All | Favourites) to switch between Queue | Now Playing
11:34 <vthompson> if we did that I'd be OK with the change... I just want to make sure we want to do it
11:34 <popey> ahayzen: is that branch ok to test?
11:34 <ahayzen> again resolves loads of issues because of one items being larger than the others... makes things easier for convergence later down the line... and allows us to be more consistent in the interface
11:35 <vthompson> the dynamic queue we have now is buggy, but unique
11:35 <popey> lp:~andrew-hayzen/music-app/now-playing-queue-split that one?
11:35 <ahayzen> popey, yeah
11:35 <vthompson> yep
11:35 <popey> k
11:35 <ahayzen> popey, but at the moment queue and now playing are two pages stacked
11:35 <ahayzen> popey, as i said ^^ we are thinking of making them like All | Favourites in the contacts app
11:35 <ahayzen> popey, so they appear as one page
11:36 <popey> i need to test this some more on my device
11:36 <ahayzen> and then lp:~andrew-hayzen/music-app/music-app-abstract-row-take-2 can land :) which just makes everything feel awesome as all the margins are all the same
11:37 <ahayzen> popey, shall i make another branch with the alternate idea then we can compare?
11:37 <popey> yes please
11:37 <vthompson> ahayzen, which alternatvie?
11:37 <ahayzen> cool i'll try and do that later
11:37 <popey> i can install on two devices side by side and compare
11:37 <ahayzen> vthompson, what u suggested in the mp
11:37 <vthompson> IMO we need to do that. I don't like the separate pages
11:37 <ahayzen> vthompson, so with Queue | Now Playing as subtabs to the page
11:38 <ahayzen> vthompson, yeah the more i play with it the more i like ur idea
11:38 <vthompson> ahayzen, it would also make it more like every other music player for phones
11:38 <vthompson> which is good and bad
11:38 <ahayzen> +1/-1
11:38 <ahayzen> lol
11:38 <vthompson> haha
11:38 <popey> so i have a possibly contentious thing
11:39 <popey> do we still need the zooming in of tracks that are playing when we have now playing screen?
11:39 <popey> (related to the topic at hand)
11:39 <ahayzen> define 'zooming in' ?
11:39 <popey> so when you have 10 tracks in the queue
11:39 <popey> and you press > to skip to another track
11:40 <ahayzen> tjhe items in the queue would all be the same height
11:40 <popey> we give a larger view of the currently playing track
11:40 <ahayzen> with a highlight next to the current
11:40 <popey> that seems to have gone with this merge?
11:40 <popey> yes, white bar on left?
11:40 <ahayzen> then when you go to the Now Playing page/tab that will be the 'zoomed in'
11:40 <popey> yes
11:40 <vthompson> zoomed in but static
11:40 <ahayzen> static is important :)
11:41 <popey> oops, crashed it
11:41 <popey> terminate called without an active exception
11:41 <ahayzen> popey, you running on trusty?
11:41 <vthompson> agreed, but I'll echo my point again--uniqueness is also rather important
11:41 <popey> yes
11:41 <ahayzen> popey, thats ur issue ;) lol
11:41 <popey> haha
11:41 <popey> noted
11:41 <popey> i forsee myself upgrading this weekend
11:41 <vthompson> yea, what are you thinking running LTS?
11:42 <popey> i know right!?
11:42 * ahayzen is gonna move to WiFi and will need to reconnect
11:42 <popey> i do like this merge
11:42 <vthompson> it'll be made more usable when the two are placed into the same page as sub-tabs--if that's what they are called
11:43 <popey> right
11:43 * ahayzen_ returns
11:43 <popey> subtabs are hard to hit
11:43 <ahayzen_> +1
11:43 <popey> in contacts
11:43 <ahayzen_> then the next thing is when the bottom edge is done where does that take you... the queue or now playing
11:43 <popey> very narrow
11:43 <ahayzen_> popey, we can make them bigger? hehe
11:43 <popey> muhahah
11:43 <davmor2> popey: I think you asked everyone to beat you if you upgraded, just saying ;)
11:44 <popey> dammit
11:44 <popey> he's everywhere
11:44 <ahayzen_> hah
11:44 <popey> ok, so ahayzen_ will make a click (?) I can test on devices ?
11:44 <popey> (two clicks)
11:44 <ahayzen_> popey, yep i'll  try and do this all tonight/tomorrow
11:45 <popey> sweet!
11:45 <popey> be good to play with those over the weekend
11:45 <vthompson> and ahayzen_ my idea would be that you'd be taken to the subtab you last had in view
11:45 <vthompson> so if you had Queue open last you'd go there
11:45 <vthompson> maybe queue would be the default so the user knows it's there
11:46 <ahayzen_> vthompson, yeah that would be nice
11:46 <ahayzen_> vthompson, so when u click on a track to play where does that take you?
11:46 <ahayzen_> vthompson, to the now playing?
11:46 <vthompson> I'd say the queue by default
11:46 <vthompson> since you are populating the queue
11:47 <ahayzen_> hmm ok
11:47 <vthompson> but if you had switched to now playing at sometime, maybe you'd be taken to the Now Playing?
11:47 <ahayzen_> suppose that should be simple
11:47 <ahayzen_> just push the page
11:47 <vthompson> and we'd prob want to see how subtabs are implemented
11:47 <ahayzen_> vthompson, i could tell it where to go/what to do
11:47 <ahayzen_> +1
11:48 <ahayzen_> vthompson, or.... a custom implementation \o/ ... my favourite :)
11:48 <vthompson> true, also, I think Michael Spencer has a similar component
11:48 <ahayzen_> yeah i'll have a look later
11:48 <vthompson> If I'm recalling his apps correctly
11:49 <ahayzen_> vthompson, also did u get a chance to have a look at the abstract-row branch?
11:49 <vthompson> I did, but I only ran it on the device.
11:49 <vthompson> I didn't know what to look for in terms of differences, so I didn't have the same appreciation as you :)
11:50 <vthompson> ie, I didn't notice the spacing changes and whatnot
11:50 <ahayzen_> vthompson, hah any of the listview should 'feel' better :)
11:50 <ahayzen_> vthompson, they all use CoverRow now... and all have the same 1GU margin... whereas before it was a bit random
11:51 <ahayzen_> vthompson, it is subtle ...but better for OCD designness
11:51 <vthompson> I'm sure it is, I'll have to compare contrast
11:51 <ahayzen_> yeah
11:51 <popey> did you mention you'll get the margins consistent?
11:52 <popey> once we switch to new listitems?
11:52 <ahayzen_> vthompson, think the only missing listview is the now playing due to the queue not being split
11:52 <ahayzen_> popey, no that is in this mp...
11:52 <ahayzen_> *branch
11:52 <ahayzen_> popey, https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/music-app/music-app-abstract-row-take-2
11:52 <popey> ok
11:52 <popey> sorry, missed that
11:52 <ahayzen_> so many things!
11:53 <popey> indeed!
11:53 <popey> very exciting
11:53 <ahayzen_> popey, its gonna look awesome when done :)
11:53 <vthompson> the 3rd one is less design-y and more straight forward, but is at the bottom of ahayzen_'s merge parade
11:53 <popey> will this fix the zoomed in track moving off screen?
11:53 <vthompson> the queue split will
11:53 <popey> right
11:53 <ahayzen_> hah
11:53 <popey> sweet
11:54 <vthompson> ahayzen_, is there something else we wanted to discuss today?
11:54 <ahayzen_> then next up in my list is bottom edge \o/....i think we're gonna need to fix the Panel bugs first though :/
11:54 <vthompson> I thought there was something in addition to the design related branches
11:54 <ahayzen_> vthompson, i'll just leave this here https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/music-app/fix-progress-bar-on-stop/+merge/223013
11:54 <ahayzen_> vthompson, and i'll loook at ur mp later :)
11:55 <popey> oooh
11:55 * popey just longpressed
11:55 <ahayzen_> vthompson, err i guess content-hub? but i've only got 5-10mins until i gotta go back to work
11:55 <popey> in listitem-actions
11:55 <vthompson> ahayzen_, yea, I'll put that next on my list to review. We'll push that one to the front of your merges
11:55 <ahayzen_> popey, yeah then u can reorder
11:55 <popey> indeed, hence the "ooh"
11:55 <ahayzen_> popey, due to the larger item in the now playing it is a bit horrible ... once the queue /now playing is split that'll  be nice
11:55 <popey> i think the content-hub stuff may have to wait until we have USians back
11:55 <popey> right
11:56 <ahayzen_> popey, FYI https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+bug/1336563
11:56 <ahayzen_> vthompson, thanks
11:56 <popey> sweet, thanks
11:56 <popey> this is super exciting ☻
11:56 <popey> you guys are rocking it!
11:56 <vthompson> so content-hub may have to wait until Monday?
11:56 <ahayzen_> ^^ bug took me like 1hr to figure wht was going on
11:56 <popey> yes
11:56 <popey> ken is out (along with most of US)
11:56 <ahayzen_> ok
11:57 <popey> unless you get responses from elleo
11:57 <popey> who is around (uk time)
11:57 <vthompson> we'd clearly need the browser portion to land as well
11:57 <ahayzen_> popey, if u have a good imagination u can try and figure out in ur head what the app will look like with all of these mp's together
11:57 <vthompson> so it's not just a music app only thing
11:57 <ahayzen_> yep we will
11:58 <popey> yes
11:58 * ahayzen_ 's imagination has a land with no bugs
11:58 <vthompson> crazy talk! You're crazy!
11:58 <popey> set them all wontfix and delete your email account
11:58 <ahayzen_> hah
11:59 <vthompson> Ok, I don't think there's much to discuss
11:59 <vthompson> I wanted to say that we should update the images in the store now that we have the sheets->pages in
12:00 <vthompson> *much more to discuss
12:00 <ahayzen_> nope same.... popey so 17th is FF for the system stuff?
12:00 <popey> yes
12:00 <ahayzen_> vthompson, store updated landed no?
12:00 <ahayzen_> vthompson, it was in the recent image
12:00 <vthompson> ?
12:00 <popey> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnZdnhOl8MU5dDJseW1vT1N5RkJvLUJHZTdhalRVd1E&usp=drive_web#gid=1
12:00 <ahayzen_> popey, cool i'll try and be speedy with any upstream patches
12:00 <popey> can you see that?
12:00 <ahayzen_> yes
12:00 <popey> store is only one rev behind now ☻
12:01 <ahayzen_> :)
12:01 <vthompson> Oh I just mean that we can update the screenshots in the store
12:01 <popey> oh!
12:01 <popey> gocha
12:01 <ahayzen_> ah yes
12:01 <ahayzen_> but then do we want after listitems/split etc?
12:02 <vthompson> we can probably add some for the actions
12:02 <vthompson> or hm
12:02 <ahayzen_> eh i'll leave tht up to us guys... but if update now u'll probably need to update again in a week or so :)
12:02 <vthompson> up to popey, they are quite stale now
12:02 <ahayzen_> anyway gotta go back to work speak later o/
12:02 <popey> yeah, we can update those once these things land
12:03 <popey> nobody sees them remember as we're default install
12:03 <vthompson> cool, ahayzen_ have a great weekend!
12:03 <popey> Thanks ahayzen_
12:03 <ahayzen_> u 2 guys o/
12:03 <popey> we're done, right?
12:03 <vthompson> yep!
12:03 <popey> great, enjoy firework day tomorrow ㋛
12:04 <vthompson> will do, enjoy celebrating your independence from babysitting the US
12:04 <popey> :D
12:04 <popey> I'll make an extra cup of tea.
12:04 <popey> thanks vthompson
12:04 <popey> #endmeeting