20:01 <popey> #startmeeting File Manager meeting
20:01 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue May  6 20:01:42 2014 UTC.  The chair is popey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
20:01 <meetingology> 
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20:01 <mspencer> hi popey, ajalkane
20:03 <popey> Hows it going ajalkane iBelieve ?
20:03 <ajalkane> howdy popey
20:04 <iBelieve> popey, it's been VERY busy, but I'm finally able to make it to the File Manager meeting.
20:04 <popey> Good to see you both.
20:05 <popey> ajalkane: I see from https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1315989 you're having difficulty there..
20:05 <ajalkane> Not going good. I've been blocked with the ContentHub stuff forever. But that's life I guess.
20:05 <popey> kenvandine: are you about? Able to help ajalkane ?
20:05 <ajalkane> Yeah, solve one problem, come another
20:06 <ajalkane> It's been neverending cycle unfortunately... mostly between the build process changes and emulator breakages
20:06 <kenvandine> ?
20:06 <kenvandine> ajalkane, what's the issue?
20:07 <ajalkane> kenvandine: right now that the emulator doesn't show Apps when ran... and when I run from command-line importer it shows only Gallery, not your exporter example
20:07 <ajalkane> Gallery as source that is
20:07 <popey> It would be great to get the content-hub stuff working on desktop and not have to block on the slow and unreliable emulator
20:07 <kenvandine> it works on the desktop
20:07 <kenvandine> just have to install the packages as click
20:08 <kenvandine> the app switching isn't great, you have to switch to the other app yourself
20:08 <ajalkane> Ok if I could get that working it'd help a lot
20:08 <kenvandine> but it launches for you
20:08 <kenvandine> ajalkane, i thought you had gotten that working?
20:08 <ajalkane> kenvandine: no, I have been at the impression the ContentHub only works in emulator
20:08 <kenvandine> the only trick is you have to install the click package differently on desktop than on the device
20:08 <kenvandine> pkcon on the device
20:08 <kenvandine> and click install on the desktop
20:09 <ajalkane> so I can just install importer/exporter on Ubuntu 14.04 desktop and it will work?
20:10 <ajalkane> is the launcing of importer the same (upstart-app-launch <app-triplet> ?
20:14 <ajalkane> I installed importer/exporter, "click list" displays nothing. Not sure how I should run them?
20:14 <ajalkane> I forgot... should I use "click install --user <me>", I just installed with "sudo click install"
20:18 <ajalkane> I can run importer with "qmlscene /opt/click.ubuntu.com/com.ubuntu.developer.ken-vandine.hub-importer/current/hub-importer.qml"
20:18 <ajalkane> But it shows no sources
20:19 <popey> iBelieve: did you see my mail about the merges from Carlos?
20:19 <ajalkane> Worth noting that my ubuntu installation is something I updated some months ago to 14.04 development version. Up-to-date by apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade though
20:19 <ajalkane> If the ContentHub stuff requires on desktop something more I'd need to know what to do
20:20 <popey> ajalkane: check you're not missing anything you should have with "sudo apt-get update" then "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^"?
20:20 <ajalkane> popey: no, it's up-to-date
20:20 <iBelieve> popey, I did. I'm somewhat familiar with C++, so I'll try to take a look at the merges.
20:20 <popey> the ^ is important - will install any missing bitsd
20:21 <popey> -d
20:21 <ajalkane> aah...
20:21 <ajalkane> The following NEW packages will be installed: libnet-libidn-perl python3-aptdaemon.pkcompat
20:22 <ajalkane> Doubtful that can be the difference to make it work?
20:22 <popey> nah
20:22 <popey> iBelieve: appreciate that thanks. we asked Carlos to break it down into more manageable chunks
20:25 <ajalkane> Yeah, I took a look at the original commit and had to tell Carlos I could not in good conscience review it as I could not make sense out of it unless it was divided into more manageable pieces
20:25 <ajalkane> Good that he had time to do it
20:27 <popey> ajalkane: ah, you're installing with click install?
20:27 <kenvandine> ajalkane, no, you can't run it with qmlscene
20:27 <kenvandine> you need to use upstart-app-launch
20:27 <popey> kenvandine mentioned pkcon install-local, rather than click install if that makes a difference
20:28 <popey> pkcon install-local foo.click
20:28 <iBelieve> popey, the original merge was certainly huge
20:28 <popey> yeah
20:28 <kenvandine> for some reason you can't use pkcon on the desktop
20:28 <popey> ah, bummer
20:28 <kenvandine> at least last i heard
20:28 <kenvandine> sudo click install --user=$USER foo.click
20:28 <kenvandine> works though
20:28 <popey> ah okay
20:28 <kenvandine> what's annoying is there is some reason you shouldn't do that on the device
20:29 <popey> yeah, cjwatson laughs at you if you complain about that
20:29 <kenvandine> so we have to do it differently... and it trips people up
20:29 <ajalkane> where is upstart-app-launch installed? Doing "which upstart-app-launch" returns nothing
20:29 <kenvandine> you need to pass the appid
20:29 <ajalkane> I seem to have upstart-app-launch package installed
20:30 <kenvandine> upstart-app-launch com.ubuntu.developer.ken-vandine.hub-importer_hub-importer_0.2
20:30 <kenvandine> assuming the version is 0.2
20:30 <kenvandine> ajalkane, also make sure you have the content-hub package installed
20:30 <kenvandine> it's possible to have the libs and not the service
20:31 <ajalkane> I seem to have content-hub (sudo apt-get install content-hub)
20:31 <ajalkane> also "sudo apt-get install upstart-app-launch"
20:31 <ajalkane> says I have newest version
20:32 <kenvandine> ok, then that should work
20:32 <kenvandine> if it doesn't, you can see the logs in ~/.cache/upstart/
20:32 <kenvandine> each app gets a log file, look for the appId
20:32 <ajalkane> but "which ubuntu-app-launch" does not return a path. So the binary, where ever it is, is not in my PATH
20:32 <kenvandine> oh!
20:33 <kenvandine> upstart-app-launch :)
20:33 <ajalkane> pff...
20:33 <ajalkane> ok but still the same, I just mistyped that time :)
20:33 <ajalkane> arto@ubuntu:~/coding/content-hub$ which upstart-app-launch
20:33 <ajalkane> arto@ubuntu:~/coding/content-hub$
20:34 <kenvandine> ah, it's in the upstart-app-launch-tools package
20:34 <kenvandine> but it should have told you that when you tried to run it
20:35 <ajalkane> got a crach running "upstart-app-launch com.ubuntu.developer.ken-vandine.hub-importer_hub-importer_0.2"
20:35 <ajalkane> * crash
20:36 <ajalkane> ** (process:14658): ERROR **: Unable to find keyfile for application 'com.ubuntu.developer.ken-vandine.hub-importer_hub-importer_0.2'
20:36 <kenvandine> did you confirm the version is 0.2?
20:36 <kenvandine> what version of the click package do you have installed?
20:36 <ajalkane> ok this might be because I didn't install with --user... I'll try installing again
20:37 <kenvandine> make sure you include --user=$USER
20:38 <ajalkane> If I installed without --user should I do some removing before? And do I install with "sudo click install --user...:" ?
20:38 <kenvandine> still sudo
20:38 <kenvandine> sudo click install --user=$USER somefile.click
20:41 <ajalkane> sudo click install --user=$USER com.ubuntu.developer.ken-vandine.hub-exporter_0.2_all.click
20:41 <ajalkane> ** (process:16436): WARNING **: Unable to get manifest for 'com.ubuntu.gallery' package: com.ubuntu.gallery does not exist in any database for user arto
20:41 <kenvandine> sigh... because you don't have gallery installed as a click...
20:41 <kenvandine> that's probably harmless though
20:42 <kenvandine> just don't try to use gallery for import or export :)
20:42 <ajalkane> what about these:
20:42 <ajalkane> ** (process:16436): CRITICAL **: manifest_version: assertion '*manifest != NULL' failed
20:42 <ajalkane> ** (process:16436): CRITICAL **: upstart_app_launch_triplet_to_app_id: assertion 'version != NULL' failed
20:42 <kenvandine> what command did you use?
20:42 <kenvandine> ah, same problem
20:43 <kenvandine> try starting it with "upstart-app-launch com.ubuntu.developer.ken-vandine.hub-exporter_hub-exporter_0.2
20:43 <kenvandine> "
20:43 <ajalkane> great, I got the importer/exporter example working
20:43 <kenvandine> cool
20:43 <ajalkane> thanks... this will help a lot
20:44 <kenvandine> ajalkane, you can also grab the gallery-app source and run the click-build script
20:44 <kenvandine> to build a click for it
20:44 <kenvandine> and install it the same way
20:44 <ajalkane> nah, I won't need it as long as I can test filemanager works with the importer
20:44 <ajalkane> but I have to ask...
20:45 <ajalkane> does ContentHub support asking for any file category nowadays?
20:45 <ajalkane> Last we spoke I had to hardwire FileManager to return Pictures
20:45 <kenvandine> if you use the ContentPeerPicker component, it lets you ask for ContentType.All
20:45 <kenvandine> that will list all peers
20:45 <ajalkane> I mean can I tell in manifest FileManager can return any type?
20:45 <kenvandine> the importer example uses that
20:46 <kenvandine> no... you can't :)
20:46 <kenvandine> right now you can only register for well-known types
20:46 <ajalkane> But it's coming, or am I not understanding something how this is supposed to work?
20:47 <kenvandine> so the thing is... the filemanager doesn't actually provide the content right?
20:47 <kenvandine> that would be saying it owns the content
20:47 <kenvandine> there are some discussions...
20:47 <kenvandine> and there was a g+ post yesterday with ideas for this
20:47 <kenvandine> specific to filemanager actually
20:47 <ajalkane> My understanding is that user could use filemanager to select any file if none of the existing apps provide it
20:48 <ajalkane> For example to upload a file to web-page... or for e-mail attachment
20:48 <kenvandine> the problem right now is there no way for the filemanager to know where to find this content
20:48 <ajalkane> From filesystem that is
20:48 <kenvandine> because pictures could be in many different locations
20:48 <kenvandine> depending on what app owns it
20:48 <ajalkane> Filemanager's content is the filesystem :P
20:49 <ajalkane> If some application owns it's content in some protected space, that's obviously out-of-scope for FileManager and the application has to be exporter
20:49 <kenvandine> right... but are you going to have the user browse ~/.local/share/com.ubuntu.developer.ken-vandine.foobar/Pictures to find pictures?
20:49 <kenvandine> well all apps own their content, and it's all sandboxed
20:49 <kenvandine> filemanager is unconfined though
20:50 <kenvandine> so technically could access it
20:50 <kenvandine> but how would you know where to find it?
20:50 <ajalkane> Nope, but if the user for example transfers content to his sdcard to phone he knows where it is
20:50 <kenvandine> yeah, so that's a good use case for the filemanager
20:50 <kenvandine> but
20:52 <kenvandine> ajalkane,  look at https://plus.google.com/117574309170420884411/posts/GQbk3XbJkGH
20:52 <kenvandine> that's a discussion that we had yesterday
20:52 <kenvandine> i need to head out now though, running late :)
20:53 <ajalkane> Okay, thanks for help ken... ws really helpful
20:53 <kenvandine> ajalkane, ping me tomorrow if you have more questions
20:55 <popey> Thanks kenvandine!
20:55 <ajalkane> This proposal is good, but I don't think it removes the need for being able to provide any file to user for uploading etc.
20:55 <ajalkane> Furthermore I have doubts this proposal is that easy to implement that it will be evailable any soon
20:56 <kenvandine> certainly not soon
20:56 <iBelieve> ajalkane, the proposal is actually kind of the opposite of being a content provider. I was thinking of having it be for previewing content in all the user's installed apps.
20:56 <ajalkane> iBelieve: ah I see, quick browsing failure. I thought it'd be accessing the data itself
20:57 <iBelieve> ajalkane, basically it acts as a central place to see all the content in your apps, and then open the content in the actual app
20:59 <popey> ajalkane: do you have everything you need to work on the content-hub stuff?
20:59 <popey> Any other blockers you can see?
21:00 <ajalkane> I see. I like it. But I can see it's still a lot of work for SDK :)
21:00 <ajalkane> popey: I can at least try to continue now with great prospects for future ;)
21:01 <popey> Ok.
21:02 <iBelieve> ajalkane, yeah, it would probably be quite a bit of work to implement the API side.
21:02 <popey> iBelieve: let me know if you're having difficulty with those merges, and I can get someone else to take a look, please.
21:02 <ajalkane> Nokia's N9 had something similar with it's Seach application. Indexing content with tracker and then displaying it in categories.
21:03 <popey> N9 used tracker?
21:03 <ajalkane> * Search application
21:03 <ajalkane> yeah it did.
21:03 <popey> Maybe we need a files scope in unity on the phone which uses a file scanner like mediascanner does for audio/video
21:04 <ajalkane> Though the Search app used some other blob on top of that... but that was AFAIK unnecessary
21:04 <ajalkane> File scanner like in Ubuntu desktop would surely be nice
21:05 <ajalkane> Assuming it wouldn't wreck battery life
21:06 <popey> Ok, any other issues to bring up?
21:06 <iBelieve> the problem with a file scanner is most apps use U1db or LocalStorage
21:07 <iBelieve> and their own custom storage format
21:08 <ajalkane> I'm good to go and hopefully no new issues next week :P
21:10 <popey> Ok.
21:10 <popey> lets wrap up then, thanks for coming guys. Let me know if either of you get stuck, you don't have to leave it till the meeting, I'm around most of the time ☻
21:10 <popey> have a great week guys.
21:10 <popey> #endmeeting