== Meeting information ==
 * #ubuntu-touch-meeting: Ubuntu Touch Dropping letters app meeting, 10 Jul at 15:10 — 15:49 UTC
 * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-touch-meeting/2013/ubuntu-touch-meeting.2013-07-10-15.10.log.html]]



== Meeting summary ==

''LINK:'' https://bugs.launchpad.net/dropping-letters/+bug/1196865 
''LINK:'' https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1068804 
''LINK:'' http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/devel/ubuntu-13.10/qml/ui-toolkit/qml-ubuntu-components0-toolbaractions.html 
''LINK:'' http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/ 



== Vote results ==




== Action items ==

 * (none)



== People present (lines said) ==

 * aquarius (77)
 * popey (74)
 * kenvandine (61)
 * meetingology (3)



== Full Log ==


 15:10 <popey> #startmeeting Ubuntu Touch Dropping letters app meeting

 15:10 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 10 15:10:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is popey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 15:10 <meetingology> 

 15:10 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired

 15:10 <popey> How are you chaps?

 15:10 <aquarius> ohai, although this is going to be another time when I say: I have no spare time :(

 15:11 <aquarius> but I have made a note of the dedicated hackday!

 15:11 <aquarius> I didn't know that they were going on.

 15:11 <popey> yay

 15:11 <popey> they were somewhat hurridly organised :D

 15:11 <popey> blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-commons/+spec/droppingletters-coreapps-development

 15:11 <popey> bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/dropping-letters/+bugs

 15:12 * kenvandine waves

 15:12 <popey> reviews: https://code.launchpad.net/dropping-letters/+activereviews

 15:12 <popey> So yes, hackdays, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/HackDays

 15:12 * aquarius looks at the bug list

 15:12 <popey> dogfooding see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Dogfooding

 15:12 <popey> i assigned a few to myself to look at

 15:12 <popey> not had chance to yet, but will

 15:12 <aquarius> um. Is there normally a way to quit a game in progress, for this sort of game? I am not sure that there is.

 15:13 <popey> yeah, most games let you "Quit to title"

 15:13 * aquarius looks at a couple of games

 15:13 * popey tries to find examples of this

 15:14 <popey> letterpress does

 15:14 <aquarius> dots does.

 15:14 <popey> but that's two player, and you resign

 15:14 <aquarius> letterpress is turn-based

 15:14 <aquarius> DL isn't -- there's a timer.

 15:14 <aquarius> but dots is the same as DL

 15:14 <popey> Guess the brand does

 15:14 <aquarius> LP needs it because you can have multiple games going on at once :)

 15:15 <aquarius> aerox does, too

 15:15 <aquarius> most of them seem to have some sort of pause button you can press

 15:15 <popey> that might be more appropriate

 15:15 <aquarius> which brings up a menu with "exit to main", "restart", etc.

 15:16 <popey> but if you get to a state where the game is a mess

 15:16 <popey> and you're frustrated

 15:16 <popey> "Screw this I want to start again"

 15:16 <popey> like if it's dropped all Z's

 15:16 <aquarius> ya. With DL there's no difference between "start this game again" and "abandon this game and start a new one", mind.

 15:17 <aquarius> ahem. If it drops all Zs then that's the luck of the draw, dude, you're not supposed to quit like a big chicken if that happens ;)

 15:17 <aquarius> but I take your point.

 15:17 <popey> the fact that it _has_ a title screen makes me think you should be able to get back to it

 15:17 <popey> it seems illogical that you can't

 15:17 <aquarius> fair comment

 15:17 <popey> ok, next bug :)(

 15:19 <aquarius> just added a note to the bug summarising the pause button idea

 15:19 <popey> ta

 15:19 <aquarius> if the links in help aren't clickable, that's a QML bug, I think; they should be clickable.

 15:20 <aquarius> ya, just confirmed that clicking them works on desktop

 15:20 <aquarius> so that's a Touch bug if they don't work there.

 15:20 <kenvandine> what do they open?

 15:21 <popey> link to the cc music artist isnt it?

 15:21 <aquarius> ya; they're links to whatever you'd expect them to be

 15:21 <kenvandine> oh that

 15:21 <kenvandine> yeah

 15:21 <kenvandine> there are no url handlers on touch yet

 15:22 <aquarius> ta daah

 15:22 <aquarius> I commented on the bug

 15:22 <kenvandine> known issue... it's being worked on :)

 15:22 <kenvandine> or will be

 15:22 <aquarius> but we'd expect that to Just Start Working at some point, yes? Without any DL changes?

 15:22 <kenvandine> the QPA plugin needs to support it

 15:22 <kenvandine> yes

 15:22 <popey> ok, awesome

 15:22 <popey> one less bug

 15:23 <aquarius> k. that's https://bugs.launchpad.net/dropping-letters/+bug/1196872

 15:23 <aquarius> I totally, totally, totally do not see the point in translating the (minimal) QML text when the dictionary isn't translated.

 15:24 <popey> yeah

 15:24 <popey> that can wait

 15:24 <aquarius> Hands up anyone who wants a game with the word "play" on the title screen in English but the dictionary in Swahili? Hardly anyone. So having it the other way around is the same :)

 15:24 <aquarius> that's why I didn't do any of the i18n stuff ;)

 15:24 <popey> the translation is a master bug for all apps

 15:24 <aquarius> ah ok

 15:25 <aquarius> puzzled by the bug about play continuining when we hit the top

 15:25 <popey> we can do that once we figure out how to do dynamic dictionaries... i.e. later

 15:25 <aquarius> it should flip the screen back to the title screen when that happens

 15:25 * aquarius tests

 15:25 <aquarius> hey!

 15:25 <popey> so basically hit play and leave it

 15:25 <aquarius> we can quit to title

 15:25 <aquarius> that's what the x, bottom-right, is for

 15:26 <popey> that was removed ☻

 15:26 <aquarius> oh REALLY

 15:26 * popey points at kenvandine

 15:26 <popey> the app wasn't using HUD

 15:26 <aquarius> so your bug is "this used to work and then we broke it"? ;-)

 15:26 <popey> haha, yes, that's exactly what it is

 15:26 <kenvandine> haha

 15:26 <popey> so i just need a button which hooks to that old quit code?

 15:26 <aquarius> why'd'ya bust my app, kenvandine? ;-)

 15:27 <popey> actually!

 15:27 <kenvandine> i switched it to use the toolbar

 15:27 <aquarius> gnargh

 15:27 <kenvandine> for new game

 15:27 <kenvandine> that x was tiny and hard to hit on the device

 15:27 <popey> right, so my column is red

 15:27 <aquarius> what, instead of the "play" on the front screen?

 15:27 <kenvandine> so instead of going to the title screen to start a new game

 15:27 <aquarius> I just got a red column, and it plays the "clang" bell, and flips the screen back to the title screen.

 15:28 <popey> not here

 15:28 <popey> i can still select letters

 15:28 <kenvandine> when i get red it just sits there

 15:28 <aquarius> then someone's bust that too

 15:28 <popey> probably the same busted code

 15:28 * aquarius gives the hairy eyeball to ken ;)

 15:28 <popey> haha

 15:28 <aquarius> the x is the same size as the letters are...

 15:28 <aquarius> or it is in my last version, anyway :(

 15:28 * kenvandine didn't change any gameplay :)

 15:29 <aquarius> clearly I need to look at the most recent version

 15:29 <popey> well, did you rip out the "quit" code from behind the button?

 15:29 <kenvandine> indeed :)

 15:29 <aquarius> can I just branch lp:droppping-letters?

 15:29 <kenvandine> aquarius, you should have reviewed my branches :)

 15:29 <kenvandine> yes

 15:29 <popey> yes

 15:29 * aquarius branches.

 15:29 <kenvandine> There is now a "New Game" in the toolbar

 15:30 <kenvandine> what is the purpose of wanting to go back to the title screen?

 15:30 <popey> to see the copyright holder of the music you're not listening to because kenvandine removed that too ☻

 15:30 <aquarius> hey, you took the buttons off the bottom toolbar!

 15:30 <kenvandine> :-D

 15:30 <aquarius> kenvandine, going back to the title screen is wanting to quit this game without starting a new one... because, say, dinner is ready

 15:30 * kenvandine doesn't remember anything besides the X

 15:31 <aquarius> there were two buttons on the bottom: mute, and x

 15:31 <kenvandine> ah

 15:31 <kenvandine> i think the mute isn't there because we disabled the sounds

 15:31 <aquarius> and the bottom thing is the same size as the letters that fall from the top, which means it's big enough to press.

 15:31 <kenvandine> there is a problem with the corner...

 15:31 <kenvandine> gestures

 15:32 <aquarius> I do not understand why DL needs an SDK toolbar at all, personally.... because you *have* to have the in-game bottom toolbar because it's where the score goes

 15:32 <aquarius> ad because the game looks stupid if the letters fall right to the bottom of the screen. I tried that :)

 15:33 <kenvandine> indeed

 15:33 <kenvandine> i tried that too :)

 15:33 <kenvandine> the toolbar gives it consistency

 15:33 <kenvandine> and the X didn't make much sense to me... it was hard to hit on the phone and i didn't see a need to go back to the title screen

 15:33 <aquarius> OK. The game should pause with the toolbar up, and on the toolbar should be "resume", "restart", and "quit to title"

 15:33 <kenvandine> what you most likely want is to start a new game

 15:33 <kenvandine> being too close to the edge is tough

 15:33 <kenvandine> that makes sense

 15:33 <aquarius> kenvandine, that's what the above discussion was: most games we've checked offer a "bail on this game without starting another" option.

 15:34 <kenvandine> yeah, so that would be quitting the app right?

 15:34 <aquarius> ah, the toolbar needs a Mute/Unmute togglebutton.

 15:34 <popey> quit to title

 15:34 <aquarius> no, because you can't quit apps ;)

 15:34 <popey> not quit the app

 15:34 <aquarius> quit to title.

 15:34 <popey> oh you can, one of our other apps has a quit option

 15:34 <kenvandine> when we add sound back :)

 15:34 <popey> (bug filed to remove it)

 15:34 <popey> we should add sound back in

 15:34 <popey> and let it crash on nexus 7 ☻

 15:34 <kenvandine> does it not crash on the n7?

 15:35 <popey> yes, yes it does

 15:35 <popey> which is a platform problem

 15:35 <kenvandine> we need it to be more robust :)

 15:35 <popey> apps shouldn't crash when they can't play audio

 15:35 <kenvandine> right

 15:36 <aquarius> are you sure DL itself crashes? That is: it's not the platform? I think that the problem is that you ask for audio and the qml engine crashes; it's not something you can work around in an app

 15:36 <kenvandine> but right now the nexus 7 is what our users are most likely to be using

 15:36 <kenvandine> aquarius, right

 15:36 <kenvandine> we can't do anything about it

 15:36 <aquarius> what DL should do, if it asks for an Audio object and something is wrong, is whine about it on the console ;)

 15:36 <kenvandine> the platform needs fixing

 15:36 <aquarius> ah, right, cool

 15:37 <kenvandine> nexus 7 is our most common device, since a bunch of them were giving out at UDS last year :)

 15:37 <kenvandine> and it is one of our 4 supported devices

 15:38 <kenvandine> popey, there is a bug tracking that issue right?

 15:38 <kenvandine> it's widely known... but i've never actually seen a bug # for it

 15:38 <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dropping-letters/+bug/1196865

 15:38 <popey> oh, in the platform?

 15:38 <kenvandine> yeah

 15:38 <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1068804

 15:39 <popey> hmm, thats the desktop build

 15:39 <aquarius> is there some event I can hook for when the toolbar shows?

 15:40 <kenvandine> yeah

 15:40 <popey> cant find one

 15:40 <aquarius> quitting to title is trivial: just add a toolbaraction which sets flipable.flipped to false ;)

 15:40 <kenvandine> toolbar.active

 15:40 <kenvandine> i think

 15:40 <kenvandine> or .opened

 15:40 <kenvandine> i can't remember, the API has changed a couple times :)

 15:41 <aquarius> hrm, it's neither of those :(

 15:42 <kenvandine> it's .opened

 15:42 <kenvandine> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/devel/ubuntu-13.10/qml/ui-toolkit/qml-ubuntu-components0-toolbaractions.html

 15:42 <aquarius> oh

 15:42 <aquarius> maybe it is in saucy

 15:42 <aquarius> so I can't do that, then

 15:42 <kenvandine> and the sdk ppa

 15:42 <aquarius> sdk ppa?

 15:43 <aquarius> I can get all the up to date stuff on raring?

 15:43 <kenvandine> the one we suggest developers on raring to use

 15:43 <kenvandine> yes

 15:43 <popey> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/

 15:43 <popey> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper && sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa

 15:43 <popey> those two

 15:43 * aquarius adds

 15:43 <aquarius> OK, I'll doa  branch which pauses the game when the toolbar is up, and lets you exit to the title screen

 15:44 <popey> oh awesome, thanks.

 15:44 <kenvandine> aquarius, great!

 15:44 * kenvandine needs to prepare for another meeting... gotta run

 15:44 <kenvandine> thanks guys!

 15:45 <popey> thanks kenvandine

 15:45 <popey> ok, lets wrap up..

 15:45 <aquarius> popey, thoughts on what the "quit to title" button should be called?

 15:45 <popey> aquarius: lemme know when the branch is done and I'll test on device

 15:45 <popey> "Quit"

 15:45 <aquarius> that would suggest that it quits the app, no?

 15:45 <popey> Exit suggests leave the app to me

 15:45 <popey> quit doesnt

 15:47 <popey> I mean, if you're in a game and you choose quit, you're definitely saying "I don't want to play this anymore"

 15:48 <popey> whether that quits to title or to shell is largely unimportant

 15:48 <aquarius> fair

 15:49 <popey> #endmeeting



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