16:02:47 <dholbach> #startmeeting
16:02:47 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 14 16:02:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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16:03:05 <dholbach> it seems the agenda is pretty much the same as last time: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
16:03:15 <dholbach> but we can use that to catch up on the things we talked last time
16:03:26 <dholbach> #topic meeting times
16:03:51 <dholbach> so the last time we said this:
16:03:53 <dholbach> Proposals: either keep time 16 UTC (every 2nd/4th Thursday), or use old
16:03:53 <dholbach> MOTU meeting times: alternate between 4 UTC, 12 UTC and 20 UTC, or use
16:03:53 <dholbach> the RMB meeting times: alternate between 12 UTC and 22 UTC.
16:04:21 <dholbach> I started a separate thread on the motu mailing list and it'd be good if everybody weighed in with their personal preference
16:04:36 <dholbach> coolbhavi, particularly for you I could imagine that other times than 16 UTC might work better :)
16:05:11 <dholbach> I guess I'll send a reminder to the list about it again
16:05:42 <dholbach> Ok, let's move on - the list will probably the best place to discuss it
16:05:53 <dholbach> #topic MOTU School (Bhavani Shankar)
16:05:56 <coolbhavi> dholbach, this time works for me most times except few times :) 16 UTC or earlier :)
16:05:58 <Laney> I'd try to turn up at any reasonable UK time
16:06:11 <Laney> but wouldn't get out of bed :P
16:06:13 <dholbach> coolbhavi, ^ do you have updates on the MOTU school sessions?
16:06:25 <dholbach> Laney, that's always a good place for meetings ;-)
16:06:31 <coolbhavi> dholbach, sent out a doodle poll
16:06:49 <dholbach> coolbhavi, did you send it to the motu list as well?
16:07:23 <coolbhavi> on the proposed number and the sessions... Will post it to the list today got stuck
16:07:35 <coolbhavi> with other work
16:07:41 <coolbhavi> sorry for that
16:08:16 <dholbach> coolbhavi, don't worry - if you send it to the list we should be fine :)
16:08:43 <coolbhavi> sure dholbach
16:08:49 <dholbach> great
16:09:01 <dholbach> coolbhavi, did you have a chat with bobweaver or did he get in touch with you?
16:09:07 <dholbach> he wanted to give a session already
16:09:18 <statik> o/ sorry i'm late
16:09:35 <dholbach> hey statik
16:10:29 <dholbach> coolbhavi, also it might be worth writing up some kind of quick announcement text we can reuse for these sessions - I can help with getting it on the fridge or the ubuntu classroom blog
16:11:03 <coolbhavi> dholbach, no but a member called joseph got in touch with me sure ll do that
16:11:07 <dholbach> ah yes
16:11:08 <dholbach> perfect
16:11:30 <dholbach> if anyone has any suggestions or would like to volunteer for a motu school session, please get in touch with coolbhavi
16:11:40 <coolbhavi> ll mail bob today btw
16:11:45 <dholbach> excellent
16:12:04 <dholbach> alright, let's move on to the next point :)
16:12:08 <dholbach> #topic Review MOTU/FAQ/New_Draft (Bhavani Shankar)
16:12:19 <dholbach> coolbhavi is definitely dominating the agenda today :)
16:12:29 <dholbach> coolbhavi, did anyone get in touch with you about the draft?
16:12:58 <coolbhavi> dholbach, :-) unfortunately on list I got no response
16:13:16 <coolbhavi> so I wanted to mail again this weekend
16:13:38 <dholbach> perfect
16:13:55 <dholbach> I think if we can mix and match old and new content it should be fine
16:14:06 <dholbach> there are surely some parts which can be borrowed from the old page :)
16:14:49 <coolbhavi> dholbach, yes a bit of editing would do good most of old page still has valuable content
16:15:01 <dholbach> perfect
16:15:29 <dholbach> alright
16:15:46 <dholbach> it seems like the rest of the agenda is only 'fixed' agenda items - does anyone have anything else they wanted to bring up?
16:15:52 <vibhav> umm
16:15:59 <vibhav> About the MOTU school
16:16:01 <dholbach> hi vibhav
16:16:11 <coolbhavi> vibhav, hey
16:16:53 <vibhav> I think it might be better if the MOTU who is taking the school seesion conducts a poll on which topic should be covered
16:16:58 <vibhav> hi dholbach
16:17:04 <Laney> \o
16:17:16 <dholbach> vibhav, we have in the past conducted a couple of these polls
16:17:43 <vibhav> dholbach: How were the results?
16:17:45 <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Requests might be useful content to review
16:18:08 <vibhav> I mean ah, didn't know that
16:18:26 <dholbach> no worries - these wiki page are not exactly easy to find :)
16:18:52 <vibhav> That is the point
16:19:19 <vibhav> We should make the wiki pages more easy to find
16:19:32 <dholbach> but yeah, it's not exactly front-facing content :)
16:20:06 <dholbach> but it might help making decision which sessions to give
16:20:11 <vibhav> yup
16:20:35 <vibhav> Social Networks, at this point, might be usefull
16:20:37 <dholbach> vibhav, but if you want, you could maybe write an email or microblog about it and solicit some feedback on packaging training sessions
16:20:50 <vibhav> sure
16:20:59 <dholbach> that'd be awesome
16:21:09 <coolbhavi> dholbach, two days back  in d-a-t meeting we discussed about g+ hangouts
16:21:11 <coolbhavi> :)
16:21:45 <vibhav> Ill ask jono about integrating some MOTU stuff in Ubuntu Acomplishments
16:21:52 <vibhav> Encouraging new Developers
16:21:59 <dholbach> ah yes, that's nice ideas
16:22:37 <dholbach> so with some additional mailing list posts and some microblogging I hope we can get some more ideas, so we can probably just leave the item on the agenda page for next time
16:22:44 <dholbach> Laney, you had something to discuss as well?
16:23:39 <Laney> I just thought I would mention that Kubuntu is going to Universe imminently
16:23:56 <Laney> and they have some particular conventions that they would like people to follow
16:24:01 <Laney> mainly pushing to some special branches
16:24:08 <Laney> should we let people know?
16:24:13 <vibhav> yup
16:24:17 <coolbhavi> dholbach, do u think d-a-t might help in providing pointers in here as in encouraging new developers?
16:24:18 <dholbach> Laney, do you know if that's documented or mentioned somewhere?
16:24:46 <Laney> perhaps Riddell or ScottK know more
16:25:03 <ScottK> Kubuntu is going to Universe.
16:25:19 <vibhav> Though it might be bit offtopic, but I think that a
16:25:28 <vibhav> MOTU mascot is needed
16:25:32 <ScottK> People just need to pay attention to the VCS info in the packages.
16:26:01 <coolbhavi> vibhav, mascot as in?
16:26:06 <vibhav> (But that would make it a bit childish, so never mind :) )
16:26:10 <Riddell> Laney: the vcs lines are in debian/control
16:26:17 <dholbach> coolbhavi, vibhav: can we talk about this in a bit?
16:26:25 <vibhav> sure
16:26:28 <dholbach> let's talk about Kubuntu first
16:26:29 <dholbach> thanks
16:26:44 <Riddell> another kubuntu convention is not to make upstream changes unless there's a clear route to it getting upstream
16:27:15 <Laney> there are a lot of Vcs lines in debian/control that Ubuntu developers ignore
16:27:21 <vibhav> yes
16:27:29 <dholbach> Riddell, have you considered bringing this up on a mailing list or blog post somewhere?
16:27:43 <dholbach> u-d-a might be even a good place for this
16:27:53 <Riddell> dholbach: not thought about it no
16:28:03 * ScottK would have thought it was reasonably obvious.
16:28:16 * ScottK doesn't touch Xubuntu stuff without talking to Xuubntu people first.
16:28:26 <vibhav> Ive observed some ubuntu-deltas with the vcs links still of debain instead of the bazaar vcs links
16:28:29 <dholbach> I think it's important enough - and would provide everybody with an update of what's going on in Kubuntu
16:28:38 <vibhav> I agree with dholbach
16:29:20 <vibhav> Explaining what universe actaully is might be the first step towards this
16:29:47 <dholbach> are any other big changes with regard to Kubuntu en route?
16:30:18 <Riddell> dholbach: not currently, the business side is waiting on canonical to sort out the trademark agreement
16:30:26 * dholbach nods
16:30:32 <Riddell> otherwise it's business as usual
16:30:32 <dholbach> but the universe move is already happening?
16:30:40 <ScottK> Yes.
16:30:42 <Riddell> dholbach: I believe cjwatson is on the case as we type
16:30:44 <ScottK> Imminent.
16:30:46 <dholbach> ok, cool
16:30:55 <ScottK> It depends on if his coffee is large enoug.
16:31:05 <dholbach> I hope this will play out posivitely for Kubuntu.
16:31:39 <vibhav> We will also need to assure people that Kubuntu has not been discontinued
16:31:45 <vibhav> or is dead
16:32:14 <cjwatson> I think I may need a second coffee for it.
16:32:14 <micahg> I don't think anyone has that opinion
16:32:57 <dholbach> Ok, if that's all in terms of Kubuntu, I guess we can move on. Thanks a lot for the update in any case.
16:33:09 <Laney> I think it's interesting for MOTU, and that there are also things that people need to be aware of.
16:33:13 <Laney> That's all I wanted to raise.
16:33:28 <Riddell> dholbach: if you see any powerful canonical people do get them to nudge steve george into doing the agreement
16:33:32 <dholbach> Yes, thanks for that - I knew that the change was about to happen, but didn't know when.
16:33:48 <cjwatson> I've checked that the CD images seem to be building with universe now, and I've checked all the archive scripts I can think of to make sure they won't explode
16:34:51 <cjwatson> Then component-mismatches looks like it'll do this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1041070/
16:35:02 <vibhav> Does this mean, one can no longer install commercial apps in Kubuntu?
16:35:19 <cjwatson> So I need to sit and think about how sane all that is
16:35:22 <cjwatson> vibhav: Totally unrelated
16:35:44 <vibhav> excuse me, I got a bit confused
16:35:59 <Laney> let's keep it related to MOTU.
16:36:43 <vibhav> yeah sure
16:36:45 <vibhav> sorry :(
16:37:29 <dholbach> ok, in that case - let's move on
16:38:20 <dholbach> vibhav, you wanted to bring up the idea of a mascot - as I know this has been talked about in the past a couple of times, I would suggest you flesh out a concrete idea and submit it to the mailing list first - because we spent a lot of IRC hours on the topic already :)
16:38:27 <AnAnt_> Hello
16:38:31 <vibhav> yup
16:38:33 <dholbach> hi AnAnt_
16:38:37 <AnAnt_> sory for being late
16:38:55 <dholbach> AnAnt_, no worries - maybe somebody can give you the logs of what we talked about up until now
16:39:24 <dholbach> Looking at the agenda, I don't have much from the Developer Advisory Team to report, but the next agenda item might be good to talk about
16:39:25 <AnAnt_> ok
16:39:32 <dholbach> #topic https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
16:39:54 <dholbach> Andrew Starr-Bochicchio and I had a stab at updating it for the bug fixing initiative for the next two weeks
16:40:13 <dholbach> so I'd appreciate if you could take a look at it and say what you think about it
16:40:25 <dholbach> or if you have suggestions for new small tasks we could offer to new contributors
16:40:57 <vibhav> hmm...let me see
16:41:12 <dholbach> I was quite happy with the typo-in-package-description-in-ubuntu-packages one, as some came up with fixes very quickly and for some it was their first interaction with the ubuntu development process and the ones I talked to enjoyed it
16:41:36 <dholbach> I plan to announce the initiative on monday and also blog about the contributors from the fixes which already went in
16:41:39 <vibhav> "Correcting VCS links for Ubuntu Deltas"
16:41:59 <ScottK> Is that really worth the trouble?
16:42:22 <vibhav> nope, but still baby steps for new contributors
16:42:35 * coolbhavi just mailed doodle poll on MOTU school to the list
16:43:12 <ScottK> Part of motivating new people is that their contributions feel useful.
16:43:23 <ScottK> Don't make the stuff too obviously make work.
16:43:40 * vibhav slaps forhead
16:44:07 <dholbach> ScottK, is there anything you'd suggest?
16:44:24 <dholbach> or any feedback on the page? :)
16:44:31 * ScottK looks
16:44:44 <vibhav> The page looks perfect to me
16:45:01 <vibhav> It includes all the ways I started with MOTU contribution
16:45:22 <ScottK> Missing man pages?
16:46:03 <dholbach> ah yes, that might work
16:46:17 <dholbach> we'd need to point to some good documentation
16:46:18 <Laney> http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/tags.html
16:46:21 <Laney> there must be some stuff in there
16:46:35 <dholbach> and how to get them included in the top-most upstream project :)
16:47:03 <micahg> vibhav: in most cases, the Vcs links don't need correcting, it's either lp:ubuntu/foo or specified, and certainly isn't worth an upload to add XS-Debian-*
16:47:23 <dholbach> maybe we could check if there's "home-grown" packages where we could add man pages and add these as a task for new contributors
16:47:24 <AnAnt_> ah, tags !
16:47:39 <dholbach> and for more experienced contributors add the step of forwarding the manpages to an upstream project?
16:47:41 <AnAnt_> I mean adding deb tags
16:47:45 <AnAnt_> I mean adding deb tags to packages
16:47:55 <ScottK> http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/tags/debhelper-but-no-misc-depends.html for packages that have an Ubuntu diff might be good.
16:48:18 <ScottK> They can submit the diff to Debian too for those that are in Debian.
16:48:20 <AnAnt_> adding deb tags is maybe not packaging work, but it is a good contribution I think
16:48:53 <vibhav> fixing lintian errors is one of the best ways to get started with MOTU imho
16:48:59 <Laney> http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/tags/brace-expansion-in-debhelper-config-file.html
16:49:14 <AnAnt_> debtags.alioth.debian.org/
16:49:51 <dholbach> ScottK, Laney: both good ideas - would you mind adding them to the page? I then could try to find a way to easily filter out packages which are only in Ubuntu, so we could separate the two groups of packages
16:50:17 <dholbach> AnAnt_, are there good instructions for debtags at the page or is there a list for tags which are currently requested or wanted?
16:50:23 <ScottK> dholbach: I'm multitasking about three ways right now, so no.
16:50:37 <dholbach> ScottK, I know the feeling
16:51:00 <AnAnt_> dholbach: yes, it can be done on the website itself, one selects from a list of existing tabs for each package
16:51:53 <dholbach> AnAnt_, I think it's a nice idea - could you imagine adding a couple of sentences to the wiki page about the effort?
16:52:31 <AnAnt_> dholbach: this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings ?
16:52:36 <dholbach> ah no, sorry
16:52:41 <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative
16:52:48 <AnAnt_> ok
16:53:14 <AnAnt_> hmmm, it isn't really related to BugFixing
16:53:17 <dholbach> great - this should give us heaps of tasks for new contributors in the next two weeks :)
16:53:26 <Laney> I added something
16:53:31 <dholbach> thanks a lot Laney
16:53:44 <dholbach> ScottK, I noted down your idea, so I'll see if I can do about it tomorrow
16:53:48 <Laney> it might not be very new-contributor friendly, so somebody should proof read
16:53:52 <dholbach> I have another meeting after this one and then need to head out
16:54:08 <dholbach> Laney, if it's too hard, we could just move it to the "intermediate" section or however we want to call it :)
16:55:03 <Laney> ok
16:55:11 <Laney> I meant my wording :P
16:55:14 <dholbach> AnAnt_, it might still be a nice introduction - even if it's a tiny little bit unrelated - it's still worthwhile :)
16:55:16 <Laney> but I see your point also
16:55:19 <dholbach> haha ok
16:55:23 <dholbach> I'll take a look at it tomorrow
16:55:23 <AnAnt_> ok
16:55:31 <dholbach> ok, we have 5 minutes left - is there anything else we should talk about?
16:56:10 <dholbach> I don't mind doing the minutes, but I'll do them tomorrow, and for the next meeting and meeting chair we'll wait on the results of the discussion on the mailing list
16:56:54 <dholbach> If there's nothing more, I'd like to thank all of you for coming - keep up the good work! :-)
16:57:08 <AnAnt_> thanks
16:57:09 <dholbach> #endmeeting