00:01:39 <bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
00:01:39 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Apr 11 00:01:39 2012 UTC.  The chair is bodhi_zazen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
00:01:39 <meetingology> 
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00:01:51 <bodhi_zazen> [topic]Re-defining Mission and Vision statement of UBT.
00:02:01 <duanedesign> o/
00:02:01 <bodhi_zazen> Are we re-defining it again ?
00:02:04 <bodhi_zazen> lol
00:02:14 <MobileDruif> Apparently
00:02:53 <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, We should change the Vision of BT. It should not be just helping the beginners enter the community. Moreover, we should make BT as the entry point for the whole community
00:03:32 <IAmNotThatGuy> Missions should be updated like milestones to be achieved for each six months or an year
00:03:32 <bodhi_zazen> I am not sure the BT is going to be the entry point, team is too isolated
00:03:49 <bodhi_zazen> forums, LP, IRC, and askubuntu are the most common entry points
00:04:15 <duanedesign> current mission: The Ubuntu Beginners Team exists to enhance the initial experience of new Ubuntu users and to guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community.
00:04:18 <bodhi_zazen> Mission is to guide those new to contributing to the community to the various team
00:05:02 <bodhi_zazen> Mission should likely be "To guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community."
00:05:22 <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay
00:05:33 <bodhi_zazen> The first part of the mission "to enhance the initial experience of new Ubuntu users" requires you all to be active on forums, #ubuntu, LP, and askubuntu
00:06:00 <MrChrisDruif> So we are just nitpicking about formulation on the wiki?
00:06:23 <JoseeAntonioR> Not always people are in #ubuntu, as it's too noisy. Also, askubuntu is a similar interface to LP, so mainly both of them are fine
00:07:28 <bodhi_zazen> The BT is what you all want to make of it really
00:07:35 <MrChrisDruif> JoseeAntonioR: I don't see how LP and askubuntu are similar in interface
00:08:10 <MrChrisDruif> Forums and LP are more similar afaik
00:08:20 <bodhi_zazen> If you want to greet new users, to me that means active on forums, askubuntu, #ubuntu, and LP
00:08:29 <duanedesign> the 'to enhance the initial experience of new users'  i thought was more for those who like to help out in #ubuntu-beginners
00:08:29 <JoseeAntonioR> Well, in LP (for LP Answers) and in askubuntu you ask questions, and they're answered, the question being asked and tracked
00:09:13 <bodhi_zazen> I do not mind #ubuntu-beginners as a support channel, but I would suggest you *try* to enhance #ubuntu if you use IRC
00:09:24 <duanedesign> whatever if we want to get rid of it fine
00:09:26 <IAmNotThatGuy> most of the members in -team are not even watching the support channel of our team. Everyone should idle in the support channel too, so that they can help the people with issues (something which you have already solved or you can try googling) and learn
00:09:36 <bodhi_zazen> +1 IAmNotThatGuy
00:10:04 <JoseeAntonioR> I think that's the main point. #ubuntu is too noisy for new users, and they can't read/understand what's told.
00:10:21 <duanedesign> well if we reduce the mission to guiding people into the community we do not nees #u-b
00:10:38 <duanedesign> need*
00:10:39 <bodhi_zazen> +1 to reducing mission statement
00:10:52 <IAmNotThatGuy> If if you don't take a step to enter and 'watch the people'/ 'you doing' help, you are failing to help achieve the BT Mission
00:10:53 <bodhi_zazen> We can expand it if the team desires to expand it in the future
00:10:59 <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay
00:11:41 <bodhi_zazen> [vote] Mission statement "To guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community."
00:11:41 <meetingology> Please vote on: Mission statement "To guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community."
00:11:41 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
00:11:43 <IAmNotThatGuy> duanedesign, We can use #u-b, where people can learn how to help. ;)
00:11:44 <bodhi_zazen> +1
00:11:44 <meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
00:11:52 <duanedesign> +1
00:11:52 <meetingology> +1 received from duanedesign
00:11:53 <benonsoftware> Can anyone vote for this?
00:11:53 <IAmNotThatGuy> +1
00:11:53 <meetingology> +1 received from IAmNotThatGuy
00:11:58 <duanedesign> yes benonsoftware
00:12:00 <IAmNotThatGuy> benonsoftware, aye
00:12:05 <benonsoftware> +1
00:12:05 <meetingology> +1 received from benonsoftware
00:12:12 <JoseeAntonioR> +1
00:12:12 <meetingology> +1 received from JoseeAntonioR
00:12:12 <MrChrisDruif> +0
00:12:12 <meetingology> +0 received from MrChrisDruif
00:12:20 <bodhi_zazen> any other votes ?
00:12:21 <IAmNotThatGuy> benonsoftware, remember, our team is open to everyone ;)
00:12:32 <bodhi_zazen> [endvote]
00:12:32 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Mission statement "To guide existing Ubuntu users to become part of the global Ubuntu community."
00:12:32 <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
00:12:32 <meetingology> Motion carried
00:12:55 <bodhi_zazen> [topic]Final decision about the Team and Focus Groups' Structure .
00:13:03 <bodhi_zazen> Are any of the FG active ?
00:13:14 <duanedesign> I think we should get rid of the FG
00:13:15 <benonsoftware> Not that I've seen
00:13:17 <IAmNotThatGuy> Ummm, well, why not give a shot with the vision statement bodhi_zazen ? :]
00:13:24 <MrChrisDruif> Not that I'm aware of
00:13:36 <bodhi_zazen> Anyone think we need them ?
00:13:45 <duanedesign> We do not really need the structure, whatever it is, that the FG gives
00:14:10 <duanedesign> We can still guide people to the appropriate places in the community without the burden of maintaining the FG
00:14:10 <IAmNotThatGuy> if we are planning to update the vision asn "an entry point to the community" we will need FGs
00:14:17 * benonsoftware has mixed opinions about that
00:14:18 <bodhi_zazen> [vote]abolilsh focus groups and work as a team in #ubuntu-beginners-team
00:14:18 <meetingology> Please vote on: abolilsh focus groups and work as a team in #ubuntu-beginners-team
00:14:18 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
00:14:19 <JoseeAntonioR> I have an idea for the FG
00:14:35 <duanedesign> +1
00:14:35 <meetingology> +1 received from duanedesign
00:14:41 <JoseeAntonioR> +1
00:14:41 <meetingology> +1 received from JoseeAntonioR
00:14:47 <bodhi_zazen> I think FG should start with a group of contributing members, not an idea
00:14:53 <benonsoftware> +0
00:14:53 <meetingology> +0 received from benonsoftware
00:14:53 <MrChrisDruif> It was from back in the hay days that they needed some extra structure
00:14:54 <JoseeAntonioR> We can abolish FG, but we can still be divided in specialities
00:14:55 <IAmNotThatGuy> -1
00:14:55 <meetingology> -1 received from IAmNotThatGuy
00:15:00 <bodhi_zazen> If you have an idea, present it in -team and build support
00:15:02 <bodhi_zazen> +1
00:15:02 <meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
00:15:25 <IAmNotThatGuy> However, we can set a base line to teach people with the help of the FGs :[
00:15:28 <bodhi_zazen> If the team is so active so as to be disruptive to activity in -team, then, and only then, make a FG
00:15:38 <bodhi_zazen> any more votes
00:15:49 <MrChrisDruif> +0
00:15:49 <meetingology> +0 received from MrChrisDruif
00:15:51 <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay. As you say bodhi_zazen
00:15:52 <bodhi_zazen> [endvote]
00:15:52 <meetingology> Voting ended on: abolilsh focus groups and work as a team in #ubuntu-beginners-team
00:15:52 <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:2
00:15:52 <meetingology> Motion carried
00:16:01 <duanedesign> I think instead of funneling people into FG we move them into Documentation Team, MOTU, Bug Control etc
00:16:12 <bodhi_zazen> IAmNotThatGuy: FG need to be a lot more active
00:16:16 <JoseeAntonioR> Yes, and we should still be 'divided' if that's the correct word in specialities
00:16:18 <bodhi_zazen> +1 duanedesign
00:16:38 <MrChrisDruif> I can't keep up on my phone, I'll leave you guys to it.
00:16:42 <bodhi_zazen> [topic]Task assignment to people
00:16:48 <IAmNotThatGuy> duanedesign, Is there any mentoring peocess going on in each teams or the people are directly put into contribution and self-learned ?
00:16:58 <bodhi_zazen> I am not really into assigning tasks
00:17:27 <bodhi_zazen> either the team is willing to step up and accomplish / contribute or it should be abolished
00:17:49 <duanedesign> i think what we can do is say to the user.  If you want to do bugs go to ubuntu-bugs. Then the BT member will be in that channel as well to continue to help the user
00:17:53 <duanedesign> IAmNotThatGuy: ^
00:18:03 <bodhi_zazen> +1 duanedesign
00:18:39 <Unit193> Right, or find another BT member that can "take over" in the sitting in with. (For example, I'd not do much good in a programming channel)
00:18:41 <benonsoftware> When the time comes could I please quickly say something about the team wiki?
00:18:58 <IAmNotThatGuy> Okay. I thought of making a proper channel of learning process through BT ;D If e get enough active members, I will put for this idea again ;]
00:19:04 <bodhi_zazen> any more comments about assignments ?
00:19:13 <duanedesign> wiki is the big one
00:19:21 <bodhi_zazen> [topic]wiki
00:19:21 <duanedesign> it needs a big update
00:19:38 <benonsoftware> +1
00:19:44 <duanedesign> i will be happy to work on this on the weekend
00:19:46 <JoseeAntonioR> +1
00:19:58 <IAmNotThatGuy> I was working on the FG pages. Now I have to stop it, remove and update the main wiki pages :]
00:20:04 <benonsoftware> I'm happy to work on it when I have the time (should be most of the week)
00:20:09 <bodhi_zazen> How about if we ask the team as the next task to update the wiki
00:20:15 <bodhi_zazen> everyone can contribute
00:20:21 <IAmNotThatGuy> aye
00:20:23 <bodhi_zazen> use -team for discussion if needed
00:20:37 <bodhi_zazen> got to start small, with something you can accomplish
00:20:38 <duanedesign> IAmNotThatGuy: you can just unlink the pages
00:20:43 <bodhi_zazen> build on success
00:20:57 <IAmNotThatGuy> duanedesign, okay
00:20:58 <duanedesign> IAmNotThatGuy: keep them in case they are ever needed again
00:21:00 <bodhi_zazen> you can also mark pages for deletion
00:21:17 <duanedesign> or that :)
00:21:39 <duanedesign> benonsoftware: did you want to say something?
00:21:57 <benonsoftware> Well, what should we do with the old FG pages?
00:22:27 <duanedesign> i say for know just remove links to them
00:22:34 <bodhi_zazen> Ask anyone even remotely interested in the FG to update the page
00:22:47 <IAmNotThatGuy> okay
00:22:49 <bodhi_zazen> If it is not updated within a month -> mark for deletion
00:23:52 <bodhi_zazen> you all as a team need to set some mutually agreeable goals and work together to achieve them, or there is no real team
00:23:54 <bodhi_zazen> start small
00:24:02 <duanedesign> +1
00:24:03 <bodhi_zazen> discuss it among yourselves
00:24:09 <bodhi_zazen> on -team
00:24:12 <bodhi_zazen> build on success
00:24:27 <duanedesign> anyone have anything else?
00:24:32 <duanedesign> thanks bodhi_zazen
00:24:37 <bodhi_zazen> [topic]open floor
00:25:10 <benonsoftware> Next meeting on the 9th of May?
00:25:15 <JoseeAntonioR> And what about Mentorship? Is it also going to be abolished, or it's going to remain open?
00:25:18 <IAmNotThatGuy> Is there anyone with any other topics to discuss ?
00:25:30 <IAmNotThatGuy> benonsoftware, yes
00:25:40 <bodhi_zazen> JoseeAntonioR: I like all these ideas, if you want to do mentorship => wiki page please
00:25:46 <bodhi_zazen> and build support on -team
00:25:57 <bodhi_zazen> I honestly do not think we need meetings
00:26:12 <bodhi_zazen> most all of this can be done on -team and a set of wiki pages
00:26:38 <duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: currently we do not have a mentorship. Membership in the team is open.
00:27:11 <duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: though we could do both i guess. Have an open team and have mentorshps if someone wanted the extra support joining the community
00:27:23 <bodhi_zazen> We sort of need the team to build on small accomplishments, then aim for the stars
00:27:57 <JoseeAntonioR> Then, let's see if someone points to the channel for this, in the case this doesn't happens then it's out of the line.
00:28:21 <bodhi_zazen> JoseeAntonioR: I am not following you on that
00:29:08 <bodhi_zazen> You all have good ideas, but the perception I have is that we need to turn that energy into action
00:30:01 <JoseeAntonioR> If not, then it'll stay as idle as it's now
00:30:02 <duanedesign> yep
00:30:15 <bodhi_zazen> Exactly
00:30:19 <IAmNotThatGuy> true
00:30:23 <bodhi_zazen> the BT has great potential
00:30:45 <bodhi_zazen> convert the potential into action
00:30:49 <bodhi_zazen> start small
00:30:59 <bodhi_zazen> which is why the mission statement has contracted
00:31:19 <JoseeAntonioR> Step by step. We're on the first one, which is setting our goals
00:31:22 <bodhi_zazen> Everyone wants to support beginners, on #ubuntu-beginners or elsewhere
00:31:23 <IAmNotThatGuy> okies
00:31:30 <bodhi_zazen> but we need to translate that into action
00:32:13 <bodhi_zazen> Any other comments ?
00:32:24 <duanedesign> i think reducing the team structure back to the very basics will hopefully help.
00:32:25 <bodhi_zazen> I HIGHLY suggest ongoing discussions in -team
00:32:37 <bodhi_zazen> during the month == time for discussion
00:32:38 <duanedesign> I think members are confused as to how things work
00:32:45 <bodhi_zazen> meetings = make a community decision
00:33:08 <duanedesign> agreed. All discussion should mostly be done before the meeting
00:33:26 <bodhi_zazen> Some discussion is acceptable during meetings, but the majority of the discussion needs to happen between meetings
00:33:59 <bodhi_zazen> Example of what I see as a team effort ...
00:34:20 <bodhi_zazen> Let us assume IAmNotThatGuy  is interested in improving IRC
00:34:38 <bodhi_zazen> IAmNotThatGuy: should join #ubuntu and serve as a facilitator to the channel
00:35:21 <bodhi_zazen> http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml
00:35:39 <bodhi_zazen> http://freenode.net/catalysts.shtml
00:35:58 <bodhi_zazen> IAmNotThatGuy: then can guide people interested in IRC to participate in IRC
00:36:12 <IAmNotThatGuy> Gotcha
00:36:15 <bodhi_zazen> If the channel is too big, people get overwhelmed , use #ubuntu-beginners
00:36:24 <bodhi_zazen> fine, very valid point
00:36:31 <bodhi_zazen> who now will help ?
00:36:44 <bodhi_zazen> Say JoseeAntonioR is interested in wiki
00:36:53 <duanedesign> the $65,000 question
00:36:58 <bodhi_zazen> Join wiki team and facilitate new users on wiki
00:37:08 <bodhi_zazen> Who is willing to help JoseeAntonioR ?
00:37:15 <bodhi_zazen> and on
00:37:21 <bodhi_zazen> build a team
00:37:27 <bodhi_zazen> build community relations
00:37:41 <IAmNotThatGuy> duanedesign, why not a 1 billion dollar? ;]
00:37:52 <duanedesign> high roller
00:37:55 <duanedesign> :)
00:38:01 <JoseeAntonioR> It's basically a group/team work. If anyone helps, we will make big, enormous things.
00:38:09 <bodhi_zazen> team means you all work together and support eachother
00:38:11 <duanedesign> +1
00:38:17 <IAmNotThatGuy> _100
00:38:21 <IAmNotThatGuy> err +100*
00:38:40 <bodhi_zazen> start small, build on success
00:39:17 <IAmNotThatGuy> sure :]
00:39:30 * benonsoftware looks at scroll back :/
00:40:14 <Unit193> And because you want to do IRC support doesn't really mean you have to be in #ubuntu, #ubuntu-beginners at least, and add whatever DE you also use (#lubuntu or #xubuntu), I personally can't help with 1 Unity question as I've never used it, but I can help with the others.
00:40:32 <Unit193> But don't just do it in #ubuntu-beginners
00:40:59 <IAmNotThatGuy> Plus, use google if you don;t know =]
00:41:00 <bodhi_zazen> +1 Unit193
00:41:17 <JoseeAntonioR> I agree with that, too.
00:41:23 <duanedesign> thank you everyone who attended
00:42:01 * duanedesign is going to watch the rest of NCIS :) i will be in -team if anyone needs me
00:42:09 <IAmNotThatGuy> bye duanedesign
00:42:22 <benonsoftware> See ya duanedesign
00:42:31 <IAmNotThatGuy> Anymore questions or topics to discuss before ending the meeting?
00:43:19 <Unit193> IAmNotThatGuy: But, quality, not quantity.
00:43:21 <bodhi_zazen> I am going to have to leave as well
00:43:37 <IAmNotThatGuy> bodhi_zazen, #endmeeting :]
00:43:38 <bodhi_zazen> I suggest we move the discussion to -team
00:43:43 <bodhi_zazen> #endmeeting