14:04:13 <bdrung> #startmeeting
14:04:13 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 12 14:04:13 2012 UTC.  The chair is bdrung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
14:04:13 <meetingology> 
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14:04:32 <bdrung> [TOPIC] Review of previous action items
14:04:58 <bdrung> there is one open item: cody-somerville to write some documentation on how to endorse someone
14:06:01 <bdrung> cody-somerville is not here. therefore we will carry it to the next meeting
14:06:05 <hrw> hi
14:06:35 <bdrung> everything else was done
14:07:11 <bdrung> [TOPIC] Marcin Juszkiewicz's MOTU application
14:07:16 <bdrung> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcinJuszkiewicz/DeveloperApplication-MOTU
14:07:36 <hrw> o/
14:07:48 <bdrung> hrw: please introduce yourself
14:07:53 <hrw> sure
14:08:21 <hrw> I work for Linaro project. Our priority is to improve Linux on ARM.
14:08:47 <hrw> I maintain arm(el,hf) cross compilers in Ubuntu since maverick (PPU for it got ~year ago)
14:09:16 <hrw> in spare time or during Linaro ARM porting jams I work on fixing ftfbs for armel/armhf packages in Ubuntu
14:10:04 <hrw> I worked on multiarching few packages to make cross compilation easier
14:10:22 <hrw> .
14:11:15 <hrw> list of ftfbs bugs which I fixed is in application
14:11:49 <hrw> I think thats all - rest is in application
14:12:05 <stgraber> how familiar are you with the Ubuntu release process and more specifically the various freezes?
14:12:50 <hrw> stgraber: did FFe for cross compiler in maverick time, had SRU for it after maverick release.
14:13:57 <stgraber> you mentioned multiarching packages, do you need a FFe for these if you were to do some now?
14:14:09 <hrw> stgraber: until final freeze universe packages are allowed to be upload unless new features are added - as for those I usually check do I need FFe for them or not
14:14:28 <hrw> stgraber: as multiarch is feature I would ask for FFe in such case.
14:14:40 <stgraber> good :)
14:14:46 <hrw> stgraber: maybe it will be decided that it may go as is but I prefer to be safe then sorry.
14:15:02 <hrw> ofcourse before asking for FFe I check rebuild of packages which b-d on it
14:15:05 <tumbleweed> i'd say it's more a "non-trivial packaging change" than a feature, but yes, FFe is appreciated
14:15:16 <hrw> otherwise it is just asking for problems
14:15:17 <stgraber> hrw: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce and read it at least daily?
14:15:27 * tumbleweed wishes people checked reverse dependencies before filing FFes :P
14:16:07 <hrw> stgraber: I am subscribed there. last mail was there  at 01.03.2012
14:16:44 <hrw> tumbleweed: I am used to daily builds of whole distributions so 'better safe then sorry' is my second name ;F
14:17:02 <hrw> tumbleweed: red buildbot meant 'drop everything and fix'
14:17:23 <hrw> stgraber: so, yes I read it when new mails arrive
14:17:45 <stgraber> hrw: perfect
14:17:52 <hrw> stgraber: also ubuntu-devel, launchpad-announce
14:18:06 <micahg> hrw: is there a reason you're using your linaro address instead of your Ubuntu address for uploads as update-maintainer is set to error out on an Ubuntu address
14:18:16 <hrw> and few debian lists (-arm -embedded) due to work
14:18:42 <hrw> micahg: I do this as part of my Linaro work.
14:18:55 <micahg> hrw: ah, ok
14:19:08 <stgraber> hrw: now, let's say we are in milestone freeze (beta2) and you want to upload python-gevent which is a universe package, can you do it and if not why?
14:19:09 <hrw> micahg: due years of my work for different clients I always used their domain on my work
14:20:39 <hrw> stgraber: beta freeze means manual appoval for main/restricted so I could upload to universe. But as this is >beta I would first check is it worth and does it break something
14:21:14 <tumbleweed> actually, manual approval everywhere, but universe uploads are waved through
14:21:27 <micahg> tumbleweed: hrw: not ture :)
14:21:28 <stgraber> most of universe ;)
14:21:28 <micahg> *ture
14:21:31 <micahg> *true
14:21:39 <hrw> ops then
14:21:50 * micahg needs to fix that wiki page...
14:21:52 <tumbleweed> micahg: right, there is some review
14:21:53 <stgraber> hrw: so in this case, python-gevent is covered by the freeze even though it's in universe, do you know why?
14:22:43 <hrw> stgraber: to not increase amount of possible rc bugs
14:22:58 <stgraber> hrw: well, that's indeed important but that's not the reason :)
14:23:58 <hrw> stgraber: nope
14:24:16 <tumbleweed> hrw: have you seen the seeded-in-ubuntu tool?
14:24:22 <stgraber> python-gevent is an rdepends of python-x2go
14:24:27 <stgraber> python-x2go is seeded by Edubuntu
14:24:29 <hrw> tumbleweed: no, I did not
14:24:34 <stgraber> and so is covered by the freeze
14:24:40 <hrw> stgraber: ah. ok, now I understand
14:24:53 <stgraber> anything that's in universe and seeded is covered by the freeze just as much as main is
14:25:06 <stgraber> seeded-in-ubuntu python-gevent would indeed let you check this
14:25:09 <hrw> thank you
14:25:19 <hrw> will make use of it for my linaro seeds
14:26:00 <tumbleweed> it gets its data from the most recent CD builds, so using it for linaro may be non-trivial
14:26:17 <tumbleweed> hrw: you've only been doing a small corner of the work MOTUs do (FTBFS and multi-arching) are you intending to broaden out? I assume you are focussing there for work reasons?
14:26:29 <hrw> tumbleweed: but checking how it works and wriiting similar one may be useful one day
14:27:00 <hrw> tumbleweed: yes, I am focusing most of my Ubuntu work on my work reasons.
14:27:57 <hrw> tumbleweed: will use motu rights also to upload fixes done by coworkers. but as I lurk in #ubuntu-motu I can work on sponsoring other people
14:28:12 <tumbleweed> great to hear
14:28:32 <tumbleweed> if you come across an area you aren't already familiar with, you'd ask for help?
14:28:36 <hrw> motu is not ppu - there are some duties attached
14:28:42 <hrw> tumbleweed: yes, I would
14:28:52 <tumbleweed> well, no duties, but we are a community
14:29:04 <hrw> tumbleweed: trying to find way in darkness can hurt so it is better to ask
14:29:19 <tumbleweed> if you are unsure, at least
14:29:32 <tumbleweed> I'm done here, I think
14:29:47 <hrw> tumbleweed: English is not my native. duties as 'will be nice to help others due to increased permissions'
14:30:55 <bdrung> hi, i am back. i had an issue with my internet connection.
14:30:59 <bdrung> sorry for that.
14:31:00 <micahg> hrw: how do you ensure that all changelogs between the version in the Ubuntu archive and a merge from Debian are present when uploading?
14:31:59 <hrw> micahg: I use debdiff + gvim(diff) when merge such ones.
14:32:31 <tumbleweed> micahg: I don't think hrw has uploaded a merge yet
14:32:45 <hrw> micahg: I know that merge-changelog exists
14:32:53 <hrw> tumbleweed: dpkg-cross
14:33:01 <tumbleweed> ah
14:33:08 <hrw> tumbleweed: 2.6.2 and 2.6.5
14:33:26 <hrw> I am also doing merges for few ppa only packages
14:33:51 <micahg> hrw: yes, but you didn't upload those :), sorry, I guess you probably won't be able to answer the question
14:34:02 <micahg> that's ok though :)
14:34:13 <hrw> micahg: they were sponsored from my debdiffs ;)
14:34:45 <micahg> hrw: right, but this is something to check with the source package before upload or during generation and not the diff
14:34:53 <hrw> ok
14:36:55 <hrw> I had issues with bzr merging of changelogs and due to that reverted to do it by hand in gvim. gcc-x.y have changelog not compatible with current Debian policies
14:37:48 <micahg> hrw: bzr-builddeb also has issues generating a proper source.changes file with all the changelog entries needed in it
14:38:17 <hrw> micahg: I am not a fan of bzr anyway. But know how to use it
14:38:28 <stgraber> micahg: "bzr bd -S -- -sa -v<version>" usually works fine here
14:38:45 <micahg> stgraber: yes, but you need the -v, not just --package-merge
14:38:58 <stgraber> micahg: right, I just don't trust --package-merge ;)
14:40:26 <micahg> hrw: BTW, it's that -v option you need when merging to generate a source.changes with all the appropriate changelog entries and then they get sent to the -changes list
14:40:38 <hrw> micahg: thanks
14:40:57 <micahg> the merge-package scripts from a merge can do this for you in most cases
14:41:13 <micahg> * from merges.ubuntu.com
14:41:24 <tumbleweed> it's also mentioned in the Merging wiki page
14:41:31 <hrw> used merges.ubuntu.com few times already
14:42:14 <hrw> mostly for dpkg-cross work but also took a look there on other packages few times
14:44:52 <micahg> hrw: do you have an interest in Debian?
14:45:20 <hrw> micahg: I used Debian since 2000 to 2010 when I switched to Ubuntu due to being hired by Canonical to work on Linaro.
14:45:52 <micahg> hrw: so, are you familiar with forwarding patches to their BTS?
14:46:13 <hrw> micahg: yes, send patch to upstream is always useful
14:47:31 <Laney> are Debian's arm ports much different from ours at the individual package level?
14:47:34 <micahg> hrw: have you looked at getting your cross compilers into Debian or is that not possible/relevant for Debian?
14:47:59 <hrw> Laney: Debian/armel is armv4t when Ubuntu one is armv7-a. armhf are same
14:48:27 <bdrung> hrw: which arm version is needed for armhf?
14:48:48 <hrw> micahg: I am working on it. we (Emdebian guys and me) decided that it will be more useful to get cross build-deps support and then proper multiarch buildable cross compiler instead of current ubuntu one
14:49:09 <hrw> bdrung: armv7-a which mean cortex-a5/7/8/9/15 and compatible cores
14:49:42 <hrw> bdrung: neon support is not required, vfp3d16 is what all arm7a chips have
14:50:14 <hrw> micahg: multiarch buildable cross is <1h of work from my packages (+build time)
14:51:05 <hrw> micahg: some changes will be needed in gcc-4.x probably but I had my hands there so many times...
14:51:12 <ScottK> FWIW, I've worked with hrw on some arm porting issues (don't recall if I ended up sponsoring the uploads or not) and I found him very pleasant to work with.
14:51:59 <hrw> ScottK: thanks
14:52:24 <bdrung> any ready to vote or are there still open questions?
14:52:32 <hrw> ScottK: it was soemthing with Qt problems. they got solved by ubuntu.arm and linaro teams iirc and then ubuntu/arm team did uploads
14:52:34 <stgraber> I'm ready to vote
14:53:11 <micahg> ready to vote
14:54:28 <tumbleweed> when can I get an arm board with >=2G of RAM?
14:54:33 <tumbleweed> also ready
14:54:39 <Laney> lets go
14:54:40 <hrw> tumbleweed: there are such ones already.
14:54:47 <tumbleweed> hrw: affordable?
14:55:02 <hrw> tumbleweed: depends on definition of 'affordable'
14:55:16 <bdrung> [VOTE] Should Marcin Juszkiewicz become MOTU?
14:55:16 <meetingology> Please vote on: Should Marcin Juszkiewicz become MOTU?
14:55:16 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
14:55:29 <tumbleweed> +1
14:55:29 <meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
14:55:33 <Laney> +1
14:55:33 <meetingology> +1 received from Laney
14:55:56 <hrw> tumbleweed: at last linaro connect I played with marvell board. quad a9, 4gb ddr3, 7xpcie x4 slots, 2 sata ports, 4x GbE - atx size beast
14:55:56 <stgraber> +1
14:55:56 <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
14:56:25 <bdrung> +1
14:56:25 <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
14:56:38 <tumbleweed> hrw: nice
14:57:05 <micahg> +1 would have liked to see more merges, but has been very responsive to comments in bugs
14:57:05 <meetingology> +1 would have liked to see more merges, but has been very responsive to comments in bugs received from micahg
14:57:16 <hrw> tumbleweed: or rather quad 'a9 compatible cores'
14:57:34 <bdrung> [ENDVOTE]
14:57:34 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Marcin Juszkiewicz become MOTU?
14:57:34 <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
14:57:34 <meetingology> Motion carried
14:57:47 <tumbleweed> hrw: as a community (hobby) ubuntu developer, affordable means "really cheap"
14:57:59 <tumbleweed> hrw: congrats, welcome to MOTU
14:58:09 <hrw> tumbleweed: then no. ram is most expensive part usually
14:58:09 <dholbach> congratulations hrw!
14:58:13 <hrw> thanks a lot guys!
14:58:14 <bdrung> hrw: congrats
14:58:58 <bdrung> [TOPIC] Select a chair for the next meeting
14:59:06 <bdrung> who will be next?
14:59:10 <rsalveti> hrw: congrats! \o/
14:59:19 <hrw> rsalveti: thx boss :)\
14:59:29 <tumbleweed> PC RAM is crazily cheap. I guess we just need dev boards with PC DDR3 sockets
14:59:47 <tumbleweed> bdrung: Still cody-somerville, I think
14:59:53 <bdrung> k
14:59:56 <hrw> tumbleweed: this will increase size of board and price
15:00:06 <tumbleweed> sure
15:00:12 <bdrung> #endmeeting