#title #ubuntu-meeting Meeting Meeting started by dholbach at 17:04:03 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-02-17.04.log.html . == Meeting summary == *Meeting the Developer Membership Board ''LINK:'' https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-motu-bof (dholbach, 17:33:45) *Other business? *Teams page ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams (pleia2, 17:37:25) *CoC 2.0 *voting software *Administrativa Meeting ended at 18:03:00 UTC. == Votes == == Action items == * (none) == People present (lines said) == * dholbach (84) * akgraner (32) * tumbleweed (30) * Laney (30) * YokoZar (16) * micahg (8) * czajkowski (6) * pleia2 (5) * beuno (5) * Gwaihir (4) * meetingology (3) * stgraber (1) * Iowan (1) * sabdfl (1) == Full Log == 17:04:03 #startmeeting 17:04:03 Meeting started Thu Feb 2 17:04:03 2012 UTC. The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 17:04:03 17:04:03 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 17:04:10 so, I just had a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda 17:04:18 o/ 17:04:19 and it seems we have a chat with the DMB today :) 17:04:25 Aloha 17:05:04 bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, tumbleweed, stgraber: anyone of you around? 17:05:11 yes 17:05:19 dholbach: hi 17:05:19 OH that is TODAY! 17:05:20 excellent 17:05:32 * tumbleweed wa just about to run off :P 17:05:39 #topic Meeting the Developer Membership Board 17:05:51 how are all of you doing? 17:06:25 rocking 17:06:26 today just took a bad turn, personally, an hour ago, but I've been typing hard at a UDW session for an hour, so the adrenaline is there :P 17:06:38 * dholbach hugs tumbleweed :) 17:06:42 dmb is looking good, I think 17:06:48 how do you generally feel is the DMB doing? 17:07:15 always on top of things? no backlog building up? 17:07:17 I think we get by pretty well these days 17:07:22 we haven't missed a meeting in ages 17:07:33 * stgraber waves 17:08:16 I was also under the impression that meetings are now quite regularly - which is great 17:08:47 * Iowan is FC rep - si 2b late 17:09:06 we've also been talking about things to do to improve the application process 17:09:31 maybe some self-test questions to let you know if you're ready, but nothing much happening theree atm... 17:09:34 tumbleweed: great to hear 17:09:53 tumbleweed, so new applicants have a better idea if they should apply or not? 17:10:19 dholbach: yeah, and also so they know what we expect all ubuntu developers to do 17:10:32 (i.e. subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce, understand freezes) 17:10:37 *e.g. 17:10:47 tumbleweed: do you feel the number of DMB members is enough ? 17:10:49 that might indeed work 17:11:02 tumbleweed, aching wrists? 17:11:13 czajkowski: we've been quorate for the last few months, so yes 17:11:24 although I did come in as a standin for a missing persia :/ 17:11:25 the developer advisory team I set up with huats recently started mailing people who had done a lot of great work to offer a bit of support - if we can get any feedback, we could share it with you 17:11:44 tumbleweed: great to hear, that is sometimes an issue for boards. glad the dmb is ok 17:11:47 tumbleweed: Is there anyone (or a lot of anyone)'s that you feel should have been developers long ago but aren't now for some reason? 17:11:48 sabdfl: hah, actually a death in the family, but nm that right now :) 17:12:22 sorry to hear that :-( 17:12:34 :-( 17:12:43 YokoZar: hopefully most developers tell people when they should apply 17:12:55 we had to push jtaylor for months :P 17:13:04 * YokoZar recalls it was debian's developer-membership rigidity that drew him to Ubuntu to begin with, whereas at Ubuntu he was directly asked to join... 17:13:24 yes, I hope the d-a-t can help identify cases like that a bit earlier going forward :) 17:13:40 YokoZar: yeah, ubuntu's open community was a big reason I got drawn in 17:13:49 (I hardly even run it on any machines...) 17:14:05 how much of your work do you feel is directly related to dealing with applications? is there many other things which need discussion or organisation as well? 17:14:22 tumbleweed: That interests me greatly :) I'm wondering if the next me is out there and if we're doing everything we can to find him and tell him "Hey, this is great, not only will I sponsor your packages but I want you to go through this super easy process and upload them yourself." 17:15:30 dholbach: hrm, maybe 5-15 mins of each meeting 17:15:37 I would hope that Debian sponsors are encouraging people to go through NM when they are ready too. Although granted it is a lot more in depth. 17:16:05 and then there is out-of-meeting stuff, micahg has been doing lots of packageset team structure cleanup 17:16:05 Also we should discuss whether Ubuntu Contributing Developer is worthwhile. 17:16:50 Laney: did you mean here or in general? 17:17:07 Laney, as far as I recall a lot of RMBs were very happy that there was a board out there which could review development contributions and make a better informed decision about it 17:17:11 the CC are probably interested in it. 17:17:46 well, I think it's worthwhile, but should be used sparingly for those who just need to keep the safety net 17:18:01 yeah, well the problem is we hardly ever get applicants from it and people say that they find it confusing 17:18:05 s/from/for/ 17:18:06 yes, it probably does sit as an unecessary extra step for many people 17:18:16 * tumbleweed encourages people to bypass it when I think they are ready 17:18:28 it shouldn't be a step for most people, maybe I can give editing the wiki a shot to make that more clear 17:19:14 do you get many applicants for membership? 17:19:22 I don't get the impression that new developers are bothered about it 17:19:24 no 17:19:28 it's been quiet recently 17:19:37 not that we get many new MOTU at all though 17:20:16 I guess there's still a few motu work items from a blueprint :) 17:20:23 always 17:20:24 eep 17:20:38 which wouldn't instantly solve the problem.... but probably invite some folks again 17:20:44 yeah, always need more motu 17:20:54 well, 2 in the last 2 months with another most likely after precise releases 17:21:21 is there anything you feel which should be really fixed in the DMB? you all seem to be generally quite happy with how the board is running 17:21:53 Also is there anything the CC can help the DMB with ? 17:21:55 still, I think I have come to the opinion that it's probably not worth having UCD as a Separate Thing 17:22:19 * tumbleweed had entirely forgotten that this meeting was coming so, nothing on my mind 17:22:23 micahg: Regarding clarifying the wiki, thank you muchly 17:23:28 Laney: I don't think people should be forced to get upload rights, if someone wants to help, but without getting upload rights, we should be able to recognize that 17:23:50 when has that ever happened? 17:24:05 on the other side of the coin, the membership requirements can make it harder for us to give PPU 17:24:09 Laney, maybe it'd be an idea to write a blog post explaining what UCD was designed to be and then ask for comments from everyone to get an idea of how many folks would like to go through the process - maybe it's not sufficiently advertised or explained - or maybe there's no interested in it at all 17:24:18 it creates a lot of confusion for a theoretical possibility that could be handled in some other way (RMBs) 17:24:43 I've posted to -devel about it before and didn't really see anyone who strongly cares about it 17:24:47 well, I'm going to try to clear up the confusion on the wiki 17:25:15 if we really want it just say "We can also award membership without upload rights if you meet the [[general guidelines]]" 17:25:33 (This is called being a Contributing Developer). 17:25:35 or something. 17:26:04 yeah, that sounds reasonable 17:26:36 de-emphisising it should remove most of the issues there 17:26:42 right, bury it 17:26:59 anything else on your list of pressing concerns? :) 17:27:01 if this person ever comes along then someone can tell them that the possibility exists 17:27:39 well, just the continued absence of persia, but that's not just us :'( 17:27:43 I seem to recall someone where PPU was clearly grantable, but the person hadn't done much to deserve membership, yet 17:27:48 but I can't remember offhand 17:28:32 not sure anyone is unhappy with upload rights implying membership in all cases, even when we perhaps wouldn't grant membership separately 17:28:46 i'm quite relaxed about that tbh 17:29:01 Yeah that seems reasonable 17:29:01 yeah, it's not a big issue 17:29:07 I didn't run into cases where it would have concerned me 17:29:37 the CC is aware that all developers are added to ~ubuntu-dev, and that that is in ~ubuntumembers 17:29:37 usually there's quite a bit of work involved into understanding the process, learning about all the bits involved, where work is happening, but you can't just see it yet 17:29:50 Laney, I am :) 17:29:57 i am glad that this advisory team effort is happening 17:30:15 it felt like a bit of an expansion too far to expect the dmb to be responsible for recruitment as well as assessment 17:30:30 yes, Christophe and I are going to announce it some time next week and hopefully get a few new contributors to help us out 17:30:42 I agree 17:30:59 any more questions from the CC? 17:31:19 or anything from the DMB members where CC members could help with? 17:31:42 nope, pub quiz time for me! 17:31:52 no, I think in the past when we've needed the CC, they've been responsive 17:32:32 the only thing on my list is: take a look at the motu blueprint again :) 17:32:39 which? 17:33:45 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-motu-bof 17:34:15 but that's unrelated to the general DMB + CC meet-up 17:34:48 czajkowski, beuno, Gwaihir, YokoZar, pleia2, akgraner: any more questions from you? 17:34:55 no, thanks for coming :) 17:35:04 nope, all sounds great 17:35:08 none from me - thanks for all the information 17:35:09 Thanks for coming :) 17:35:11 nope, all looks good 17:35:19 no thank it's been really intersting to leanr what ye folks do 17:35:25 thanks a lot - and thanks for doing a great job on the DMB! 17:35:54 great 17:36:08 as far as I can see there's nothing else on the Agenda 17:36:17 #topic Other business? 17:36:54 Teams page clean-up and CoC 2.0 17:37:08 aha! 17:37:10 good points 17:37:16 #topic Teams page 17:37:25 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams 17:37:30 akgraner, want to give an update? 17:37:54 sure - so the link pleia2 just gave is out of date 17:38:39 so I started a drafts page #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/draft/Teams 17:39:17 I added many of the Canonical lead teams based on the feedback from UDS about people wanting to know how to get in contact with various teams and who lead those teams 17:39:18 Oh, I had a quick update ~ voting software to discuss as well 17:39:57 I also found that reporter, approved and approved date didn't mean much to people so I am changing that as well 17:40:28 I should have it finished by Saturday for everyone to review and if approved we can change it out and start recommending it again 17:40:38 thoughts? 17:40:51 maybe a call for review via blog? 17:41:02 so folks who never updated their team record can just go ahead and do it? 17:41:20 dholbach, I was going to so that once I had the page cleaned up 17:41:47 ah, cool 17:41:51 sounds good to me then 17:41:57 long term, do we have a plan to maintain this? 17:42:17 I think we should - someone has to take ownership of it 17:42:21 personally I think it'd be good if the job wasn't tied to us specifically :) 17:42:30 and teams would just go and update their date 17:42:30 but who then? 17:42:40 even if it would require us to do some annual poking 17:42:40 dholbach, um that didn't work in the past 17:43:01 just an idea: isn't the IRC column redundant? Since there is no real information about what is the channel, maybe rely only on the team's page? 17:43:03 that's how it got this out of date - people add stuff and never go back and look at it 17:43:19 it's meant to be a quick level over view 17:43:40 maybe that's all they want what channel can this team be found in without going to the team page 17:44:03 one click to find all the relative information is what I was thinkingg 17:44:05 thinking 17:44:26 yep, but there is no real channel name, adding the channel name maybe? 17:44:39 I haven't added any of the new column information those are just place holders right now 17:45:01 got it 17:45:07 :-) 17:45:43 if there's people who don't mind looking after it every now and then, then that's great 17:46:15 maybe we should continue the discussion via mail? 17:46:38 fine with me 17:46:40 :-) 17:46:43 excellent 17:46:43 #topic CoC 2.0 17:47:13 so, a few changes have been introduced in the ubuntu-codeofconduct branch recently and it was suggested to merge the leadership coc into the CoC 17:47:17 to give it a bit more publicity 17:47:31 AFAIK akgraner (was it you?) put up a google doc already 17:47:34 so I added the LCoC and the CoC on one document - I've made some changes to it - but others still need to take a look 17:47:51 I could take an action to massage the changes into the branch as a merge proposal, so we can all take a look at it together again 17:48:07 and then make the decision to get it into LP, the website and all the other places if we all agree 17:48:16 it still reads like 2 separate documents 17:48:19 legit 17:49:28 and maybe that's ok - we just need a better lead into the LCoC part of it - I changed a little of it to make it flow but it still needs some more work 17:50:09 ok, I'll take the action to mergeproposalify it, so we can review it together 17:50:24 where is the doc? 17:50:38 there was a link in one of the emails 17:50:49 I can dig it out and post an MP tomorrow 17:52:03 cool 17:52:06 thanks dholbach 17:52:07 ok, rocking 17:52:09 moving on 17:52:09 #topic voting software 17:52:14 YokoZar, your stage 17:52:29 So, my volunteer who maybe might write us usable voting software messaged me the other day 17:52:55 He envisions a bit of a larger project, but wanted to cover our use case, and wanted to know if something based on Google App Engine is ok 17:53:20 Since we already use an offsite service (CIVS) I don't think it's any worse 17:53:25 * dholbach has no opinion 17:53:41 sabdfl, do you have anything to say about the above? 17:53:46 yeah, it's not portable, which sucks a bit 17:53:54 but not worst, I agree 17:54:22 There's an attempt at a free lower-featured app engine replacement we could run ourselves I think, and his software may work on that (he mentioned it) 17:54:45 would it present us with a CIVS-like service which is going to work with Launchpad Teams (OpenID teams support)? 17:55:07 That was basically my only request, so presumably ;) 17:56:06 if you need more opinions on the google app engine criterion, best just bring it up with the rest of the CC in an email 17:56:14 so we can see if there's more opinions 17:56:14 Yeah fair enough 17:56:18 Ok that's that 17:56:30 Anything else? 17:57:09 #topic Administrativa 17:57:25 I guess we should decide on next chair, who does the wiki update and the like 17:57:35 maybe we should also fire up an etherpad and write the minutes together 17:57:43 that way we all get to go in 2-3 minutes :) 17:58:34 YokoZar, beuno, akgraner, pleia2, Gwaihir: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/zCK129zmpU :) 17:58:48 * akgraner looks 17:59:05 dholbach, doesn't meetingology give you all the bits once the meeting ends? 17:59:28 and you can just copy and paste? 17:59:31 only if you diligently use #info for every important thing ;) 17:59:39 ahhh 17:59:43 ok nm me :-) 17:59:48 hum, I guess we better get using #info the next times then 18:01:46 ok, if we're done with the minutes, I'm happy to update the wiki - who's the next chair? 18:01:48 I can't chair but I'll be happy to help with admin stuff once the meetings end 18:02:32 ok, let's find the chair next time - we always found somebody 18:02:43 akgraner, I'll update the team report - can you do the next meeting time and everything? 18:02:52 sure can 18:02:56 excellent 18:02:58 thanks everyone! 18:03:00 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)