#title #ubuntu-meeting: Technical Board Meeting started by mdz at 20:58:26 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-01-09-20.58.log.html . == Meeting summary == *Action review ''ACTION:'' kees to perform brainstorm review (mdz, 21:00:36) *Xubuntu LTS Application (knome) ''LINK:'' https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-January/001160.html (mdz, 21:02:32) ''LINK:'' https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-January/001160.html (mdz, 21:02:38) ''LINK:'' http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/precise/xubuntu (mdz, 21:05:18) ''LINK:'' http://paste.ubuntu.com/798657/ (stgraber, 21:06:33) ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedDerivatives doesn't require moving everything to main, so I'm a bit wary of setting that precedent since I know the review process entails a fair amount of work (cjwatson, 21:08:40) *ARB: Allow for files outside of /opt/extras.ubuntu.com// as long as they are prefixed by "extras-_". This is mostly to fix Unity lenses, the ARB will still require any data and binary to be in /opt/extras.ubuntu.com//. An example would be (for package abc): /usr/share/unity/lenses/music/extras-abc_abcmusicstore.scope (stgraber) *ARB: Allow for files outside of /opt/extras.ubuntu.com// as long as they are prefixed by "extras-_". *Kubuntu LTS Application (ScottK) ''LINK:'' https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal (mdz, 21:38:03) ''LINK:'' http://paste.ubuntu.com/798698/ looks very incomplete (pitti, 21:49:10) *Edubuntu LTS Application (stgraber) ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal (stgraber, 21:54:02) ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal (mdz, 21:54:23) Meeting ended at 22:04:33 UTC. == Votes == * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal For: 5 Against: 0 Abstained: 1 * Xubuntu LTS 3-year designation For: 3 Against: 0 Abstained: 2 * https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal For: 6 Against: 0 Abstained: 0 == Action items == * kees to perform brainstorm review == Action items, by person == * kees ** kees to perform brainstorm review == People present (lines said) == * mdz (84) * cjwatson (54) * pitti (54) * stgraber (40) * meetingology (37) * knome (23) * micahg (21) * soren (20) * Riddell (12) * kees (9) * ScottK (8) * charlie-tca (6) * ajmitch (3) * ubottu (1) * debfx (1) * cyphermox (1) * fabo (1) == Full Log == 20:58:26 #startmeeting Technical Board 20:58:26 Meeting started Mon Jan 9 20:58:26 2012 UTC. The chair is mdz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. 20:58:26 20:58:26 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 20:58:53 * stgraber waves 20:58:57 o/ 20:59:18 here 20:59:28 #topic Action review 20:59:31 * pitti: document brainstorm review activity → carried over 20:59:32 * kees: perform brainstorm review → carried 20:59:43 documentation is done 21:00:06 \o 21:00:10 o/ 21:00:20 yeah, holiday distracted me about the brainstorm review :( 21:00:36 #action kees to perform brainstorm review 21:00:36 * meetingology kees to perform brainstorm review 21:00:50 #topic Xubuntu LTS Application (knome) 21:01:27 knome doesn't seem to be around 21:01:47 he sent a mail today 21:02:09 hey 21:02:14 that would need a list of supported packages, I think 21:02:17 oh, hello knome! 21:02:32 https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-January/001160.html 21:02:38 #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2012-January/001160.html 21:02:38 mdz: re-added Edubuntu after Kubuntu to the agenda. We haven't voted on it yet as Edubuntu's LTS status depends on Kubuntu's 21:02:39 as Xubuntu is built out of universe, it's not immediately clear which packages in it are security sensitive 21:03:05 pasting here since it's short: 21:03:06 the Xubuntu team has put together an LTS plan proposal for the TB to 21:03:06 review, and it is as follows: 21:03:06 * 3-year LTS cycles 21:03:06 * Milestone image testing i386/amd64 (including point release updates 21:03:06 post release) 21:03:08 * Best effort High/Critical bug fixes 21:03:10 * Best effort security fixes for Xfce related packages 21:03:46 knome, is there a list of 'Xfce related packages'? 21:04:14 no, not yet at least afaik 21:04:18 xubuntu has a packageset: http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/precise/xubuntu 21:04:28 most desktop-ish packages are probably fairly harmless, but I wonder if there are some libraries which touch/parse HTML or other network data 21:04:44 tbh, micahg will know about this 10 better than me :) 21:04:55 What web browser does Xubuntu use by default? 21:05:06 firefox at the moment 21:05:15 and thunderbird as mail client 21:05:18 #link http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/precise/xubuntu 21:05:19 That would certainly help with security support. 21:05:32 yeah, and micahg is active in both communities ;) 21:05:37 (does #link not work, or is it just silent?) 21:05:40 pidgin stands out as a security-heavy package 21:05:43 mdz, it's silent :) 21:05:43 I'm not sure if it's feasible to commit to the entire packageset though 21:05:56 pidgin is supported by the security team as it's in main 21:06:33 http://paste.ubuntu.com/798657/ 21:06:44 that's the list of source packages in Xubuntu that aren't supported in Ubuntu 21:06:48 (based on germinate output) 21:06:54 hm, I don't think that's really intended; sounds like we forgot to unseed it since we switched to empathy 21:07:00 stgraber: that should be the xubuntu packageset :) 21:07:03 if these packages are going to receive bug fixes and security updates, is it appropriate to move them into main? 21:07:27 oh, but it's not... 21:07:37 that would make things simpler 21:07:45 mdz: no, it wouldn't 21:07:48 micahg: hehe, yeah, that doesn't always work ;) 21:08:13 telepathy-haze -> b-deps libpurple-dev 21:08:16 i suppose "xfce related packages" mostly are meant to mean xfce4-* and thunar-*, maybe tumbler, ristretto, leafpad, gtk2-engines-xfce, garcon <- micahg, am i right? 21:08:22 parole 21:08:26 orage 21:08:32 libxfce* 21:08:40 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedDerivatives doesn't require moving everything to main, so I'm a bit wary of setting that precedent since I know the review process entails a fair amount of work 21:08:42 gigolo 21:09:11 how about a Supported: header in Packages? 21:09:32 that's not too hard 21:09:43 yeah, I checked the xfce specific packages and they had pretty few CVEs, I'm not sure about the rest, I guess I'd want to check before committing to those packages 21:09:50 harder than it ought to be, but not desperately bad 21:10:32 so is the question whether or not it's OK to label Xubuntu an LTS given this level of maintenance? 21:10:47 (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/launchpad/files/head:/cronscripts/publishing/maintenance-check.py I think; can't check as it's timing out ...) 21:11:02 mdz: we have had these for a long time already? 21:11:11 pitti, I mean for the Xubuntu packages 21:11:20 so that it's clear to end users what's what 21:11:30 Any TB decision regarding flavour support lifetime should be accompanied by an LP branch publishing that change in LP 21:11:57 or followed by, anyway 21:12:23 knome: How many active developers do you currently have? 21:12:45 cjwatson, that depends on how you count it, but i'd say 1-3... 21:13:03 cjwatson, but 1 is how we've maintained xubuntu for the past i can't remember how many releases 21:13:03 My main concern with any flavour is essentially whether they'll actually be able to sustain the support lifetime in question 21:13:10 2 active with upload rights AFAIK, myself and mr_pouit 21:13:58 Supporting stable releases takes a fair amount of time over and above supporting ongoing development; depending on how much turnover you have in your software stack it doesn't necessarily parallelise well 21:13:58 cjwatson, the plan has been discussed in the community and we decided/come to the conclusion this is what we can do 21:14:02 I would add that Xubuntu has supported both 8.04 and 10.04 as LTS releases, with three year lifetimes 21:14:04 cjwatson, I don't know what assurance we can ask for other than that they solemnly swear it :-) 21:14:18 Right, but the TB is supposed to do *some* kind of check :) 21:14:30 What kind of SRU throughput do you have at the moment? 21:15:10 is it a good argument/assurance if we've did it with less resources for two releases already? :) 21:15:25 micahg is the one to answer that ^ 21:15:26 mdz: I realise it's hard to predict the future; I just want to make sure we don't end up in a situation where we advertise n-year support for lots of flavours in a fit of enthusiasm and then don't make it 21:15:56 charlie-tca: What do you mean by that? Do you mean that you (plural) were continuing to publish SRUs for three years from date of release? 21:15:57 LTS support in practice mostly means "security updates" and perhaps a point release, right? Or do you actually plan to backport hardware support, etc? 21:15:58 cjwatson, do we need to differentiate somehow between Canonical-backed LTS and community-backed LTS? 21:16:15 cjwatson: yes 21:16:16 mr_pouit has done 5 SRUs since oneiric's release 21:16:20 mdz: On the whole I would prefer not to as a matter of principle, although there's the elephant in the room of security support 21:17:10 the reason why we think it's feasible as Xfce generally only has a handful of CVEs every couple of years 21:17:20 s/as/is/ 21:18:03 I don't think we would be doing hardware backports, but security updates, SRU's, and point releases 21:18:09 * pitti checks abiword history -- doesn't have too many past CVEs 21:18:37 I don't think there's been much research lately on abiword -- most efforts moved to OOo 21:18:38 I'm not sure about the rest of the packages in the packageset, I would have to check on those 21:19:01 damn, I need a way to count SRUs by package set :-) 21:19:07 cjwatson, I think there's a qualitative difference between the two. an organizational commitment generally stands even if the individuals involved were to disappear 21:19:15 cjwatson: I just did it by name :)_ 21:19:56 but I don't feel that strongly about it 21:19:56 mdz: OTOH individuals often retain enthusiasm when companies decide for political reasons to move on, so it's swings and roundabouts I think 21:20:30 cjwatson, that would be interesting data - SRUs by package set 21:20:59 do we have enough information on the table to make a decision about Xubuntu now? 21:21:11 Just one thing: 21:21:31 Maybe it's been answered already, but: What's the motivation? 21:22:09 to keep xubuntu supported for 3 years? 21:22:11 Has there been a lot of demand for it from the user community? 21:22:12 Yes. 21:22:23 so, for me the packages that stand out are pidgin, abiword, xchat; nontrivial, but on the whole seems manageable; but I still wonder if there is a lot of actual demand for it? 21:22:33 Or is it simply to be a serious alternative to the "bigger" flavours? 21:22:48 I think I am reasonably convinced that Xubuntu has a credible history of being a responsible part of the development community and caring about updates as much as many others, at least from my own impressions and the extremely unscientific data samplings I've been able to do 21:22:49 ...or something entirely different? 21:22:57 Not having a need for users to download and install 300-500 updates two years down the road because as non-LTS designated, you do not get a point release 21:23:44 charlie-tca: Is that the key factor or just one in many? 21:23:49 one 21:23:51 Ok. 21:24:13 but a serious one, since users are sometimes downloading as much in updates as the original cd 21:24:28 that too, and tbh, the non-lts releases have been stable too, so it's not a huge push to go for a longer supported lts too, and we really want to do that 21:24:38 It probably won't change my vote or anything, I'm just curious what the motivation is. 21:24:41 Ok. 21:24:47 That's cool. 21:24:56 Xubuntu hasn't generally been one for going in for horrifically unstable wobbly software stacks either IME 21:25:02 it's just logical to go that way really, as we've always done it and it haven't been a problem 21:25:02 we have other topics to get to: ready to vote? 21:25:02 which should help ... 21:25:22 I'm ready to vote. 21:25:25 aol 21:25:27 I'm ready too 21:25:32 yeah, it was worse when it was still using hal a year or so ago, now it should be relatively robust 21:25:58 pitti, not all things in the world can we fix ;) 21:26:01 #voters cjwatson pitti stgraber mdz kees soren 21:26:01 Current voters: cjwatson kees mdz pitti soren stgraber 21:26:15 #vote Xubuntu LTS 3-year designation 21:26:15 Please vote on: Xubuntu LTS 3-year designation 21:26:15 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 21:26:35 mdz: Cool, I didn't know about that feature. 21:26:37 +1 21:26:37 +1 received from soren 21:26:40 +1 21:26:40 +1 received from mdz 21:26:43 +0 21:26:43 +0 received from pitti 21:26:46 +0 21:26:46 +0 received from stgraber 21:26:55 +1 - it sounds feasible and I think I'm convinced of the Xubuntu team's ability to deliver 21:26:55 +1 - it sounds feasible and I think I'm convinced of the Xubuntu team's ability to deliver received from cjwatson 21:27:28 * mdz prods kees 21:27:35 (And there's been a lot of buzz about Xubuntu lately, especially from people who dislike Unity; I'd like to encourage them to stay within the fold ...) 21:28:20 for the record, the +0 was because of the somewhat limited set of people dealing with uploads when supporting a different desktop. I'd really love to see more people contributing to packaging and SRUs for Xubuntu 21:28:42 stgraber: so would I :) 21:28:50 stgraber, we love you so much as you're willing to help us 21:28:58 I'm going to assume kees got disconnected or something 21:28:59 #endvote 21:28:59 Voting ended on: Xubuntu LTS 3-year designation 21:28:59 Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2 21:28:59 Motion carried 21:29:21 #topic ARB: Allow for files outside of /opt/extras.ubuntu.com// as long as they are prefixed by "extras-_". This is mostly to fix Unity lenses, the ARB will still require any data and binary to be in /opt/extras.ubuntu.com//. An example would be (for package abc): /usr/share/unity/lenses/music/extras-abc_abcmusicstore.scope (stgraber) 21:29:33 thanks! 21:29:38 #topic ARB: Allow for files outside of /opt/extras.ubuntu.com// as long as they are prefixed by "extras-_". 21:29:47 oh, my topic :) 21:29:51 stgraber, yep :-) 21:29:58 great :) 21:30:02 so basically, the ARB has received some Unity lenses to review 21:30:18 these like desktop apps need some kind of reference outside of /opt 21:30:50 in order to provide a generic way for the ARB to provide these, I'm proposing that extras-_ prefix so we avoid potential path conflicts 21:30:50 This kind of reminds me of the various things in the LSB (I think) that have namespaced files in various places for when it isn't practical to have a separate hierarchy 21:30:54 what do they need specifically? 21:31:01 as much as possible would remain in /opt/extras.u.c/ 21:31:17 is it not practical for unity to look for lenses in /opt? 21:31:20 I think the principle is reasonable but I think it should be up to the Unity people to define the namespace of the files in their directory 21:31:28 And not to the ARB to pick one 21:31:41 no, because you'd need gobbing for /opt/extras.ubuntu.com/*/usr/share/unity/*/ 21:31:53 in general, prefixing files with extra__ looks like a reasonable way to me to limit the chance of file collisions 21:32:19 and we'd need to SRU that change to supported release (at least 11.10) which could still be considered a new feature 21:32:24 And then it would be fine to say something like "packages under the purview of the ARB can have files outside /opt where specific policy allows for namespacing to avoid collisions" 21:32:28 IMHO 21:32:32 the globbing shouldn't actually be that expensive, though 21:32:51 cjwatson, +1 21:32:55 That is a particularly irritating type of thing to have to glob ... 21:33:02 cjwatson: I'd be fine with that, sure 21:33:05 but I'm even inclined to say that we shold modify the existing policy to prefix *.desktop files in /usr, too 21:33:10 I mean if you look at the syscalls involved 21:33:28 pitti: agreed 21:33:48 I'm fine with prefixing the lens descriptions, though (I guess the actual code would live in /opt) 21:33:58 cjwatson, it doesn't sound too bad to me, but namespacing outside of opt is certainly simpler 21:34:33 yes, only the lense file would be in /usr, everything else would be in /opt. We just need to confirm with the DX guys what's the easiest, a prefix or a sub-directory (if they scan sub-directories), ... 21:35:55 mdz: I'm thinking of this as something that might apply to things other than lenses, and trying to keep down the number of moderately expensive lookups across the system - I agree it probably wouldn't have a huge impact in just one case but this feels like a precedent 21:36:02 stgraber, sounds like a consensus 21:36:07 good enough? 21:36:12 yep 21:36:36 right, and prefixing with extras_src_ seems like a general enough principle for this, unless of course the file name is user visible 21:36:53 #topic Kubuntu LTS Application (ScottK) 21:36:54 how much patching of packages do you think this'd introduce? 21:37:01 oh, sorry ajmitch 21:37:04 e. g. we wouldn't name LibO document templates like that 21:37:23 Hello. 21:37:30 This should really be Riddell. 21:38:02 waiting for previous to finish 21:38:03 #link https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal 21:38:28 that's the proposal, we'd like to suggest Kubuntu is an LTS for 5 years 21:38:46 ajmitch, I imagine not much, only where the program in question can't accommodate the namespacing (restrictions on filenames eg) 21:38:48 I've got a question about Qtwebkit 21:38:49 the initial motivation for this was Unity lenses, so for these I'll talk to DX to see how we want to do it, for other similar cases, the ARB will deal with it case by case and if something weird shows up and we aren't sure how to deal with, we'll come back to the TB 21:38:55 we're a supported product of canonical, have a strong comminity and it's in a good place for upstreams 21:39:16 * Riddell waits 21:39:40 stgraber: sounds good 21:39:42 * ajmitch thinks we're done with the ARB topic now, sorry :) 21:39:43 stgraber: dbus activation *.service ? (related to lenses) 21:40:49 pitti: right, these will need to use that exception too, though we'll be extremely careful with anything touching dbus because of potential path conflict on the dbus path 21:41:26 Riddell, what is upstream's plan for ongoing maintenance of Qt and KDE during this time? 21:41:42 it seems to me that, similar to firefox, webkit would need a µrelease exception, and corresponding Qtwebkit updates 21:41:57 you mentioned both are going to see major new versions; does that mean that support for the current versions might be discontinued during the 5-year term? 21:42:24 pitti: that's true, but we have a problem in that qtwebkit usually only supports the last 2 QT stable releases (or maybe even 1) 21:42:26 do we have experience with API stability for those? i. e. can we build a three year old KDE browser against a current {,qt}webkit? 21:42:28 mdz: formal support from upstreams is the same as always 21:42:52 KDE is does patches for the master and last two releases and Qt does much the same 21:43:08 of course qt is in ubuntu desktop so it's already 5 years supported 21:43:09 which is fine for most of the desktop, IMHO 21:43:21 (GNOME does even less) 21:43:29 Riddell, cool, thanks 21:43:37 mdz: bleh, yeah, network back now. +1 from me, fwiw. 21:43:47 but we do need to find a solution for webkit for 5 years 21:43:52 pitti: Qt has a policy of not changing API for the Qt 4 series 21:44:19 Riddell: ah, so while the webkit API might change, qtwebkit would "adapt" it to a stable API? 21:44:57 webkit is of course used by other (non-KDE) bits as well, so that will introduce some extra porting challenge (as we don't want to break other software in main using webkit) 21:45:19 pitti: yes, it'll use Qt 4.8 in 12.04 and the API and ABI don't change 21:46:12 Qt has a copy of webkit in its sources 21:46:19 qtwebkit and webkitgtk are 2 separate sources 21:46:42 e. g. software-center, rhythmbox, and ubiquity use webkit as well, so we might need to adapt them to new webkits (i. e. backport ports from the devel release) 21:46:45 and webkit is embedded in qtwebkit? 21:47:11 pitti: no, the plan with those is to stay on webkit 1.8 for the life of precise (we can discuss that later) 21:47:23 *webkitgtk 21:47:54 micahg: ah, we can? does it get supported for that long? 21:47:57 same script as before gives me the following for kubuntu: http://paste.ubuntu.com/798698/ 21:48:10 which interestingly doesn't list qtwebkit 21:48:11 pitti: I'll be trying to build a conglomerate of people to support it 21:48:25 note ubuntu one is going to be ported to pyqt I head so that means qtwebkit will be 5 years supported by virtue of ubuntu desktop anyway 21:48:26 which would indicate something in Ubuntu brings something which brings qtwebkit into Ubuntu 21:48:40 stgraber: no ubuntu desktop uses qt 21:49:10 http://paste.ubuntu.com/798698/ looks very incomplete 21:49:17 stgraber: depends whether you're using the output of something that follows build-depends, which would almost certainly pull in qtwebkit 21:49:42 you can't build Ubuntu desktop from scratch (e.g. new port) without building qtwebkit along the way 21:49:49 which is of course not the same as supporting it for users 21:49:53 Riddell: right, and webkit itself is, too (the qt binding around it is probably less of a security problem) 21:50:20 the same reason may account for other apparent incompleteness too 21:50:24 10 minute warning 21:50:42 no other questions from me 21:50:44 Edubuntu is still up next 21:51:05 I think it's also worth mentioning that we've had very good experiences with KDE updates post-release. We've updated all of KDE twice for oneiric and I'm about to upload the third and last full release to oneiric-proposed. 21:51:24 It seems like they're doing a good job on preventing regressions as they fix bugs. 21:51:26 pitti: afaik qtwebkit doesn't plan to release a new version for Qt 4 with an updated webkit 21:51:31 #vote https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal 21:51:31 Please vote on: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal 21:51:31 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 21:51:45 +1 21:51:45 +1 received from pitti 21:51:47 +1 sounds workable to me 21:51:47 +1 sounds workable to me received from mdz 21:51:49 +1 21:51:49 +1 received from kees 21:51:50 cjwatson: that was using all+extra.sources, diffing ubuntu and kubuntu 21:51:54 +1 21:51:54 +1 received from stgraber 21:51:59 +1 21:51:59 +1 received from cjwatson 21:52:04 stgraber: right, so as I said 21:52:06 (Oh boy. mvo overhauled maintenance-check but it still needs non-trivial work to support different LTS lifetimes for different flavours.) 21:52:31 Fortunately he's got a use case to work with then ... 21:52:33 soren, still here? 21:52:40 ScottK: I was just going to do it now(ish) 21:52:55 ;-) 21:52:56 Sorry, yes. 21:52:58 +1 21:52:58 +1 received from soren 21:53:06 * micahg still has no idea who's supporting qtwebkit 21:53:13 Real world, unmaskable interrupt :) 21:53:13 hmm, seems like if all #voters have voted, the vote should end itself 21:53:16 #endvote 21:53:16 Voting ended on: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal 21:53:16 Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 21:53:16 Motion carried 21:53:26 #topic Edubuntu LTS Application (stgraber) 21:53:27 micahg: if webkit itself stays at 1.8, then the binding shouldn't actually need much maintenance? 21:53:38 highvoltage: ^ 21:53:57 micahg: I was mostly concerned by e. g. a MRE for webkit to be able to support it (like firefox), and then we'd need heavy bindings work 21:54:02 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal 21:54:08 pitti: webkitgtk and qtwebkit are built from two different sources, I have no idea if patches are portable 21:54:19 this was pre-discussed, and the requisite (Kubuntu LTS) is now ack'ed, so edubuntu looks fine for me 21:54:23 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal 21:54:28 micahg: sometime they are, not always 21:54:38 so basically we were waiting on Kubuntu's as Edubuntu is roughly Ubuntu + Kubuntu and then our educational packages 21:54:55 We were going to review the list of Edubuntu-specific sources too 21:55:06 arkose, what a surprise ;-) 21:55:12 (That isn't in Ubuntu yet?) 21:55:18 (I mean desktop) 21:55:20 since last time we discussed, we've dropped our java dependency making the list much shorter 21:55:23 micahg: oh, it's not just a binding; I thought it was 21:55:24 package list: http://paste.ubuntu.com/798471/ 21:55:28 calibre? 21:55:32 cjwatson: nope, it's still in Universe, only Edubuntu ships it at this point 21:55:39 That doesn't have a stellar recent history 21:55:42 bdrung, it doesn't look like we'll get to your topic, I'm sorry 21:55:52 vnc4? 21:55:56 calibre is primarily a matter of updating it for hw support 21:56:08 and x11vnc? 21:56:10 as new reader models come into the world quickly 21:56:21 kees: vnc4 and x11vnc both come because of epoptes, our classroom management tool 21:56:40 we used to have iTalc shipping with bundled source of these two, thought it'd be better to switch to something actually using the tools 21:56:45 hmm, I thought SDL was in main but I guess not 21:57:07 pitti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/885027 21:57:09 Ubuntu bug 885027 in calibre "SUID Mount Helper has 5 Major Vulnerabilities" [Undecided,Fix released] 21:57:09 the upstream for epoptes is an Edubuntu developer and uses LTS in production so will be doing LTS support for these 21:57:20 cjwatson: heh, never aplied to debian/ubuntu fortunately 21:57:27 * kees nods 21:57:38 pitti: I know, the thread just isn't exactly encouraging though 21:57:39 this wrapper looked waaay to crackful to me to package it 21:57:44 yeah, righ 21:57:45 t 21:58:07 it does have a lot of recipes to scrape websites and build epubs, which is a potential threat vector 21:58:27 mdz: libsdl1.2 is in main. QEmu uses it. 21:58:44 soren, ah, but -image and -mixer are in universe. got it. 21:58:44 for both the recipes and hw support releases generally become mostly useless after a few months 21:58:49 and -net 21:59:04 1 minute warning 21:59:15 pitti: is that something we can easily SRU or should we instead drop calibre to avoid getting a useless tool after a while? 21:59:41 it seemed useful when we introduced it, but I'm not extremely attached to it (though I use it myself) 21:59:55 stgraber: the dependencies don't tend to change a lot, so in principle it's backportable; but the UI tends to change, so it's not a "classic" SRU 21:59:57 calibre will continue to work with lots of devices even if it isn't updated. the ebook reader world doesn't move THAT fast :-) 22:00:22 we're out of time 22:00:25 This sounds like there are bits and pieces but generally we're OK 22:00:27 stgraber: I don't know how well the recipes backport to old releases; hw support is rather intrusive, as the core code changes a lot 22:00:36 if we're not ready to make a decision on this, we should take further discussion to email 22:00:38 mdz: the recipes do, though 22:00:44 web sites change all the time 22:00:52 I'm a Kindle owner, so you can expect Kindle support to be working, not sure for other devices, as long as hardware support doesn't regress, I'm not really worried 22:00:55 I'm ready to vote 22:00:59 pitti, oh, I don't use those 22:01:02 * stgraber is ready too 22:01:12 #vote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal 22:01:12 Please vote on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal 22:01:12 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 22:01:18 +1 22:01:18 +1 received from stgraber 22:01:20 +0 22:01:20 +0 received from mdz 22:01:43 +1 (with the caveat of some packages) 22:01:43 +1 (with the caveat of some packages) received from pitti 22:01:54 +1 but I think it's worth examining calibre further 22:01:54 +1 but I think it's worth examining calibre further received from cjwatson 22:02:04 +1 22:02:04 +1 received from kees 22:02:07 +1 22:02:07 +1 received from soren 22:02:10 #endvote 22:02:10 Voting ended on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/12.04/LTS-Proposal 22:02:10 Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1 22:02:10 Motion carried 22:02:10 and VNC 22:02:23 who's chairing next? 22:02:37 I thought we were going by nick order, but pitti was before me 22:02:43 first name I think 22:02:48 which would be Soren then? 22:02:56 ah 22:03:04 soren, can you make it? 22:03:11 23 Jan 22:04:30 I'll assume so 22:04:33 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot)