16:07 <stgraber> #startmeeting Technical Board meeting
16:07 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 30 16:07:08 2014 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
16:07 <meetingology> 
16:07 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
16:07 <stgraber> #topic Action review
16:07 <stgraber> infinity to review and respond to MAAS SRU thread
16:07 <stgraber> well, infinity isn't around so I guess we'll just carry that one over
16:08 <stgraber> #topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
16:08 <pitti> mdeslaur got a response to the MAAS thread
16:08 <pitti> or two in fact
16:08 <mdeslaur> do we really need to wait for infinity on that one?
16:08 <pitti> but at this point I feel like we don't get any more useful answers
16:09 <pitti> I still don't have the feeling that I know how they ensure backwards compatibility, but I could just be overly paranoid
16:10 <pitti> mdeslaur: "legally" we don't, a single +1 is enough for an MRE, but some consensus is certainly prudent
16:10 <mdeslaur> they claim the API with the nodes will be stable, but don't mention how they plan on making sure of that
16:10 <mdeslaur> actually, I think I'll ask that as a follow up question
16:11 <stgraber> ok, so back to the ML for that one
16:11 <stgraber> that's the only thing I see in the ML history for September so I guess we didn't miss anything :)
16:11 <stgraber> #topic Check up on community bugs (standing item)
16:11 <stgraber> still nothing
16:11 <stgraber> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (next from https://launchpad.net/~techboard/+members)
16:12 <stgraber> that'd be infinity
16:12 <stgraber> #topic AOB
16:12 <stgraber> anything anyone?
16:12 <kees> nothing from me.
16:12 <pitti> nothing from me either
16:13 <mdeslaur> nope
16:14 <ScottK> Re MAAS, they are currently pushing for invasive changes in psycopg.
16:14 <ScottK> It makes me wonder how they expect to support trusty.
16:15 <pitti> well, if they only make that to trunk, not to the stable branches, that'd be ok?
16:15 <mdeslaur> ScottK: oh? do you know what changes those are, or where they've been discussed?
16:15 <pitti> I'm not sure whether we are still talking about microreleases only, or new major releases; but I expect the latter (yay terminology)
16:16 <ScottK> Looking for the bug.
16:16 <pitti> indeed, sorry, it explicitly said "new releases"
16:16 * pitti confused, sorry
16:16 <pitti> anyway, there's precedent; newer python modules could be bundled into the new release
16:16 <pitti> (which is fairly simple with python)
16:17 <ScottK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/psycopg2/+bug/1366104
16:17 <mdeslaur> thanks ScottK
16:19 <mdeslaur> hrm, interesting
16:19 <stgraber> pitti: though psycopg2 contains a C extension module, so still possible but not nearly as clean :)
16:19 <mdeslaur> but it uses a libpq 9.3 only api
16:20 <pitti> I'm not sure how much pressure there is to also put new maas releases to 12.04
16:20 <pitti> the effort/gain ratio seems too big for me (but that's just gut feeling)
16:20 <ScottK> Which is why it's a much more invasive change than the sloc count indicates.
16:21 <ScottK> I'm assuming they decided not to care about 12.04 anymore.
16:22 <mdeslaur> their request to the tech board was for "latest LTSes"
16:22 <ScottK> Upstream pretty much said "you're on your own" re backport the change.
16:23 <ScottK> Then at least the libpq is there.
16:23 <pitti> latest LTS seems reasonable
16:23 <ScottK> Agreed.
16:23 <mdeslaur> if you want changes in other packages, that's up to the SRU to decide whether they are acceptable or not
16:23 <mdeslaur> s/you/they/
16:23 <pitti> yeah, fixes are certainly okay
16:24 <ScottK> In this case I'll say not.
16:24 <mdeslaur> if they can't get the fixes they require, then it's up to them to work around them
16:24 <pitti> like, fixing psycopg to get along with large files smells like a bug fix worth having in an LTS
16:24 <ScottK> The psycopg2 change is way more than a fix.
16:24 <pitti> I didn't look into it in detail, just the description and some comments
16:25 <pitti> but https://github.com/psycopg/psycopg2/pull/259/files looks reasonable at first sight
16:25 <ScottK> I'd say changing the libpq API you're using post-release is crazy.
16:25 <pitti> (not sure if that's an ABI break due to teh changed types)
16:25 <mdeslaur> well, the code is condition and checks the version
16:25 <mdeslaur> conditional
16:26 <ScottK> Who knows what latent bugs exist in the new api.
16:26 <pitti> anyway, putting that detail aside, if changes to other packages are not applicable as an SRU, there's always the bundling option, or working around it in another way
16:26 <mdeslaur> right
16:27 <ScottK> We'd get the new api on 14.04 since we'd build against 9.3.
16:27 <pitti> right, and 14.04 is all we talk about, isn't it?
16:27 <ScottK> Yes.
16:28 <ScottK> Which is why backporting that patch concerns me.
16:28 <ScottK> 'Works with MAAS' doesn't really help.
16:28 <ScottK> It's everyone else I worry about.
16:29 <pitti> yes, that's what I mean -- if that change is too intrusive for an SRU, there's other ways to get this for maas
16:29 <pitti> (I didn't claim that the psycopg fix was fine for an SRU, just that it looks reasonable at first sight)
16:29 <mdeslaur> if the change gets NACKed by the SRU team, it's up to them to work around it somehow
16:29 <ScottK> So it'd be nice to consider the possibility they have to bundle stuff in any MRE approval.
16:30 <pitti> yes, I think for some bits that's quite unavoidable
16:30 <ScottK> To bring us back to the topic.
16:30 <pitti> e. g. if there's a new dependency which is in trusty universe we don't want to promote it post-release
16:30 <pitti> (or binNEW it, etc.)
16:31 <pitti> at least then both the effort and the impact of bundled stuff is restricted to maas itself and its devs
16:31 <ScottK> (or add a patch that's not SRU suitable)
16:31 <pitti> and the latter will make sure that it doesn't happen too often
16:31 <ScottK> Yes.
16:31 <pitti> ScottK: yeah, obviously
16:33 <pitti> so, are we done for today then?
16:33 * pitti smells dinner, yummy :)
16:33 * kees waves
16:34 <mdeslaur> I think we are
16:34 * pitti waves good bye then, see you!
16:34 <pitti> stgraber: *nudge*
16:34 * ScottK waves.
16:34 <mdeslaur> thanks!
16:40 <stgraber> oops :)
16:40 <stgraber> #endmeeting