== Meeting information == * #ubuntu-manual: Authors and Editions meeting #2 for Ubuntu 13.10, 24 Aug at 19:07 — 20:06 UTC * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-08-24-19.07.log.html]] == Meeting summary == === Upcoming Schedule/Due Dates === The discussion about "Upcoming Schedule/Due Dates" started at 19:09. * ''LINK:'' https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApS28NMLnYJXdEdGQjRtUWtaOUZxREVzUldSOU5kc2c#gid=0 * ''ACTION:'' schlopo to verify contents of Wine section with the departure of Thomas === Communication with authors === The discussion about "Communication with authors" started at 19:22. * ''ACTION:'' godbyk to prove results of section statuses to Ubuntu Manual coordinators * ''ACTION:'' schlopo to communicate deadline through mailing list to all authors, and target those who've shown no activity in their sections. === Open Q & A === The discussion about "Open Q & A" started at 19:27. * ''ACTION:'' hannie to remove author/editor email addresses from the shared spreadsheet and replace with LaunchPad usernames/nicks * ''ACTION:'' hannie to send an email to the mailing list about reducing the number of margin notes and avoiding screenshots (except icons where necessary). == Vote results == == Action items == * schlopo to verify contents of Wine section with the departure of Thomas * godbyk to prove results of section statuses to Ubuntu Manual coordinators * schlopo to communicate deadline through mailing list to all authors, and target those who've shown no activity in their sections. * hannie to remove author/editor email addresses from the shared spreadsheet and replace with LaunchPad usernames/nicks * hannie to send an email to the mailing list about reducing the number of margin notes and avoiding screenshots (except icons where necessary). == Action items, by person == * godbyk * godbyk to prove results of section statuses to Ubuntu Manual coordinators * hannie * hannie to remove author/editor email addresses from the shared spreadsheet and replace with LaunchPad usernames/nicks * hannie to send an email to the mailing list about reducing the number of margin notes and avoiding screenshots (except icons where necessary). * schlopo * schlopo to verify contents of Wine section with the departure of Thomas * schlopo to communicate deadline through mailing list to all authors, and target those who've shown no activity in their sections. == People present (lines said) == * schlopo (78) * hannie (67) * godbyk (39) * CarstenG (19) * meetingology (9) * cqfd93 (8) == Full Log == 19:07 #startmeeting 19:07 Meeting started Sat Aug 24 19:07:12 2013 UTC. The chair is schlopo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 19:07 19:07 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 19:07 #chair schlopo 19:07 Current chairs: schlopo 19:07 #meetingtopic Authors and Editions meeting #2 for Ubuntu 13.10 19:08 Alright, we're live. Please announce for the purposes of minutes and attendance. 19:08 Heree 19:08 I'm present ;) 19:08 here 19:08 here! 19:08 I'm here. 19:09 #topic Upcoming Schedule/Due Dates 19:10 Looks like September 19th, 2013 is our next due date. Any issues with this date? Concerns? 19:10 Well, not all chapters have authors, but we won't get any before sept 19th I guess 19:10 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApS28NMLnYJXdEdGQjRtUWtaOUZxREVzUldSOU5kc2c#gid=0 19:11 I personally am not too concerned about it 19:11 Raring and Saucy do not differ that much 19:11 there are a few holes in the desktop chapter, but if you're not concerned, I'm not either. 19:12 I think we have to go through the chapters without authors to see if they need some changes 19:12 I see that a column has been added to the spreadsheet indicating the status of a section from the author's perspective. Good call. 19:12 Yes, I did that 19:12 I want to be able to see if an author has finished 19:13 Very helpful. I'll update my sections' status (stati? statum?) by tomorrow evening. 19:13 And editors status too, but that comes later 19:13 hannie: Good idea. That'll work well with our new \status command. 19:13 hannie: Is it useful, to say »finished« before the feature Freeze? 19:13 hannie: I'll see if I can generate a list of those statuses for you this weekend. 19:14 CarstenG, yes, there could still be changes, but not mayor ones 19:14 ok 19:14 godbyk: assuming others have been using it (guess retrieving these statuses from the lastest rev will answer that question) 19:14 It is up to the author to bring in last changes 19:15 schlopo: True. From watching the commits it looks like a lot of people have been updating them. 19:15 schlopo: But we also have the date they were updated, so we will know when they haven't been keeping up to date. 19:15 godbyk: Great! 19:16 Any other input/concerns regarding upcoming due dates? 19:17 Well, like I said before, the line between authoring and editing becomes very thin. Some proofreading and editing has been done already 19:17 Yea, it's going to definitely blend, especially since we've improved on our author<->editor connections this iteration. 19:18 I think Kevin pulling a status report (and maybe emailing it to the list?) will be helpful in seeing who has yet to touch their section. 19:19 ...and also which authors-editors are way ahead of the game. 19:19 schlopo, has thomas stopped contributing completely, or will he continue doing wine? 19:19 Not sure about thomas... 19:19 got an email from him saying he wanted to drop out of authoring, but still wanted to write a Wine section? 19:20 Ok. The wine section does not need to be changed because it has nothing to do with saucy anyway 19:20 Almost sounds like he wants to do that exclusive to the manual. 19:20 I think Thomas is interested in creating an entire manual just for Wine. 19:20 I removed him from his assigned sections and assigned myself to them. 19:20 I'm not sure if he's still going to work on the Wine section in our manual or not. 19:20 godbyk: I'll take a look at it. 19:20 yes, so I understand. But I do not know if he still maintains our wine section 19:21 Wine is under Advanced Topics. I'll own it. 19:22 ok, so that is solved then 19:22 #action schlopo to verify contents of Wine section with the departure of Thomas 19:22 * meetingology schlopo to verify contents of Wine section with the departure of Thomas 19:22 #topic Communication with authors 19:22 CarstenG, can we already start making screenshots? 19:24 schlopo, sorry, that was not on the agenda... 19:24 hannie: Well, I would not before UI freeze on 19th September 19:24 ok 19:24 No worries... :) 19:24 Re: author communication, I intend to send out communication to all authors reminding them of the upcoming due dates. Again, will be helpful to have Kevin's data pulled from section statuses. 19:25 I'm going to target (with a direct email) those who've not shown any activity. 19:25 schlopo: I'll get that to you this weekend. 19:25 ...the intent being to not hit the September 19th deadline with sections undone. 19:25 godbyk: thanks... 19:26 #action godbyk to prove results of section statuses to Ubuntu Manual coordinators 19:26 * meetingology godbyk to prove results of section statuses to Ubuntu Manual coordinators 19:26 #action schlopo to communicate deadline through mailing list to all authors, and target those who've shown no activity in their sections. 19:26 * meetingology schlopo to communicate deadline through mailing list to all authors, and target those who've shown no activity in their sections. 19:27 #topic Open Q & A 19:27 thanks in advance for the list, godbyk 19:27 hannie: No problem. That's what the \status command is for. :) 19:27 Alright...the floor's open...any issues/concerns we can tackle? 19:29 schlopo, do you mind if I move the email addresses from the spreadsheet to a separate sheet? 19:29 I already did, but I left yours where they were 19:29 hannie: sure. 19:30 And do we need permission to put somebody's address on the sheet? 19:30 I would avoid putting their addresses in the sheet since it's public. 19:30 If it were restricted to fewer people, I wouldn't have a problem with it, though. 19:31 But they are there already, should we remove them and publish them in a sheet that is not public? 19:31 btw, why do we have the email addresses there? We all are at LP and on the Mailinglist. 19:31 So you want me to remove them completely? 19:31 CarstenG: The mailing list can get noisy. 19:32 CarstenG: I think they were just added there out of convenience. It makes it easy to copy and paste when you need to email a particular chapter's author or all the authors. 19:32 Well, if someone wants to contact someone else, he find the email address on LP or on the list (if that one has already written to the list) 19:33 CarstenG, you need to know a person's LP name 19:33 which is often a nick 19:33 Yea, let's just put the LP username. They can take this name to LP and find the address. A few extra steps is all. 19:33 This you see in the commit messages on bzr :-) 19:33 CarstenG: Unless you want to email someone who hasn't been committing. ;-) 19:34 So we should add the LP names to the spreadsheet and remove the email addresses? 19:34 godbyk: Yes, you are right. :-) But do we have authors, who did not yet made a bzr commit? 19:34 hannie: Yes 19:35 hannie: Yes, this sound better to me :-) 19:35 Ok, I can do it if you like 19:35 Are you willing to do this, hannie? 19:35 ok 19:35 I think that's a good solution. 19:36 It makes it more difficult for spammers to harvest the email addresses. 19:36 #action hannie to remove author/editor email addresses from the shared spreadsheet and replace with LaunchPad usernames/nicks 19:36 * meetingology hannie to remove author/editor email addresses from the shared spreadsheet and replace with LaunchPad usernames/nicks 19:36 btw, can someone find the google document without having the specific link? 19:37 that's a good question. I think not. 19:37 Share options: everone who has the link... 19:38 The link to the spreadsheet is in the NOTES section of the ubuntu-manual wiki, so, in terms of availability, it's easy to find. 19:38 is allowed to make changes to the spreadsheet 19:38 Well, I have it organized in my Ubuntu Manual folder on Google Drive. 19:38 But we can also add a link to the style guide if it'd be helpful. 19:38 godbyk: ...also, in the NOTES section on the ubuntu-manual wiki 19:39 I've added quite a bit information to this section as I (personally) was getting tired of filtering through old emails for how-tos, style guides, installation/customization instructions, etc. 19:39 Is it wise to make the link public (put it on the wiki)? 19:40 I'm slowly trying to add all this info to the style guide so it can be the first place to check. 19:40 When we only spread it via our mailing list it will be available only to members of UMP 19:40 The way I see it, if it's emailed (in a list or not), it's public. 19:40 schlopo: Agreed. The mailing list has public archives. 19:41 The mailing list is only for members 19:41 godbyk: I DEFINITELY would like to consolidate this information...maybe make a manual for the manual ?! 19:41 schlopo: Yeah, that's essentially what the style guide is. 19:41 hannie: the list is for members, but the archive is public 19:41 ah, yes, public archives. You are right. 19:42 Would it be better to change the spreadsheet's share options so only members can change it? 19:44 hannie: this doesn't solve the "privacy" concern, but it does prevent someone from going in and wiping away all the data. 19:44 ...but then, it turns into a management concern (adding / removing members) 19:45 I am more concerned about the privacy then the risk of someone deleting the contents. I have a copy on my pc 19:45 *than 19:45 hannie: true 19:45 btw, why do we have this informations on a google shreadsheet? We also can do it on the wiki, or? 19:45 The wiki needs a lot of manual formatting 19:45 spreadsheet... 19:45 The spreadsheet is much easier to use 19:46 hannie, are you planning to call an editor's meeting in the future? Is there a need to rally your base in this regard? 19:46 Well, I am not a meeting tiger :) 19:47 I'd suggest having an editors meeting closer to the authoring deadline. 19:47 * schlopo isn't either 19:47 Just to make sure we didn't lose any editors and that they're ready to start editing. 19:47 If not necessary, I will not plan one. I prefer to use our ml 19:47 I do send editors a pm 19:47 hannie: Good thinking. 19:48 And I try to keep in touch by email 19:48 But like with authors, there will be chapters without editors too 19:50 there are not too many gaps though. I am quite happy with the editors we have right now 19:51 * schlopo notes we have 10 minutes left. 19:51 I want to ask authors to reduce the number of marginnotes (if you all agree, that is) 19:51 * schlopo wonders if Sylvie dropped off the face of the IRC map. 19:51 YES! 19:51 ABSOLUTELY! 19:52 We have already discussed it in the past. I prefer to see text on the page itself 19:52 THANK YOU! 19:52 * schlopo is excited at this suggestion (in case there be any doubt) 19:52 I agree with that sentiment. 19:52 The margin notes should be for optional material only. Short asides. 19:52 They especially shouldn't be lengthy paragraphs. 19:52 ...and also screenshots in the marginnotes! I think this is a bad idea. 19:52 hannie: You are right. It is also less work to move the marginnotes in the translations to the right place. 19:52 schlopo, shall I send an email to our ml about this? 19:53 marginnotes should extend a concept...not explain a new one. Many notes I've come across are paragraphs in and of themselves. 19:53 (Aside from the style issue, I usually have to finesse the position of the margin notes a bit before publication. So fewer margin notes would mean less work for me. :-)) 19:53 godbyk: You're welcome! 19:53 godbyk: Yes, this point I mean :-) 19:53 So we agree: the less marginnotes the better 19:54 As far as screenshots in the margins... the only screenshots that should be in the margin are ones that are naturally small enough to fit there. 19:54 cqfd93, where are you? Hiding somewhere? 19:54 hannie: yes, if you'd do that, I believe the UMP world would be in harmony. 19:54 (Otherwise it looks awkward to have a tiny screenshot surrounded by inches of white space.) 19:54 yes, programm icons are IMHO ok in marginnotes. 19:54 I'm here, reading :-) 19:54 CarstenG: alright...I've give in on this one! 19:54 cqfd93: Good! :) 19:55 cqfd93, sorry for not asking you too about the screenshots 19:55 I just don't have much to say! 19:55 np 19:55 No translation questions? 19:55 I agree we have to wait until the UI freeze 19:55 good 19:56 #action hannie to send an email to the mailing list about reducing the number of margin notes and avoiding screenshots (except icons where necessary). 19:56 * meetingology hannie to send an email to the mailing list about reducing the number of margin notes and avoiding screenshots (except icons where necessary). 19:56 small screenshots like menus are ok in marginnotes 19:57 I think we need to start now (on a non LTS release) to whittle down the marginnotes, so that the upcoming LTS release yields a much cleaner manual. 19:57 During the final phase we will go through the whole document to see if we can minimise margin notes (chapters without author/editor) 19:58 Is it minimise in US and minimize in GB? 19:58 hannie: Yes. With a Z in the US. 19:58 thanks 19:58 Center vs Centre 19:59 Utilise vs Utilize 19:59 oy vey! 19:59 Hooked on Phonics worked for us! ;-) 19:59 I should stick to the agenda, I am a bit naughty 19:59 Btw, speaking of translations, you guys are filling up my bookshelf pretty quickly: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5067756/IMG_20130824_145634.jpg 20:00 WOW! That looks pretty impressive 20:00 Ya' know, Kevin, THAT is just a beautiful picture! 20:00 A lot of volunteer person-hours represented there. 20:00 wow! 20:01 godbyk: Very nice. :-) 20:01 A true testament to a geographically diverse community coming together to accomplish a task. 20:01 And those are just from the past year. I don't have back copies of all the previous manuals. 20:01 Would be good for the website :-) 20:01 CarstenG: +1 20:01 I'll try to take a better photo without the glare of the flash sometime. 20:02 godbyk: And did you read all the books? ;-) 20:02 ok, and put it on the website 20:02 Does anyone think it'd be worth it to move the older versions of the manual from lulu.com to createspace.com/amazon.com? 20:02 Or should we just leave them there? 20:02 godbyk: I don't see the French version for 12.10... 20:02 I haven't checked, but I doubt that many people are buying the older versions. 20:03 cqfd93: Yeah, I missed that one. I'll have to order it next. :-) 20:03 ;-) 20:03 Alright...on this VERY motivating note (thanks to our fearless leader)...are there any other issues? 20:03 I would not move them to createspace, except of course 12.04 20:04 hannie: I think all the 12.04 are on CreateSpace except for the English edition. I'll double-check. 20:04 excellent 20:05 Ok...so this will be the last author's meeting I'll chair. I'll punt now to hannie to coordinate any editor communication (which I, too, will join). 20:05 schlopo: Thanks for your help with coordinating the authors. 20:06 Thanks for handing it over to me, schlopo ;) 20:06 Thanks for being here! I'll post the logs of this meeting to the wiki and tackle most (if not all) my action items by Sunday evening. 20:06 godbyk: My please. 20:06 hannie: sure thing. 20:06 godbyk: *pleasure. 20:06 godbyk, +1, thanks schlopo for all you do as authors coordinator 20:06 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)