13:34 <willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-10-09
13:34 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct  9 13:34:58 2018 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
13:34 <meetingology> 
13:34 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
13:35 <willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel, heber, kenvandine (hols), laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out), tjaalton, tseliot
13:35 <seb128> hey o/
13:36 <oSoMoN> hey ho
13:36 <andyrock> o/
13:36 <willcooke> oh, Till is out too
13:36 <didrocks> o/
13:36 <jibel> o/
13:36 <willcooke> While we wait for everyone to arrive, some notes...
13:36 <tjaalton> o/
13:37 <willcooke> If you have things to raise, they should have been in your meeting notes.  If you forgot, or find something to talk about now, if it can wait to after the meeting, please do that, otherwise there will be AOB at the end
13:37 <willcooke> Second thing - release is just over a week away - so naturally Cosmic is the focus.  We still have quite a few issues getting it to boot and start correctly.
13:38 <willcooke> I'm going to skip Bionic again this week so we focus only on Cosmic
13:38 <willcooke> Please have a look through the notes and if you can help with sponsoring or reviews, please dive in
13:38 <willcooke> Notes are here: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/monday-8th-october-2018/8221/5
13:39 <willcooke> ok, so I don't see anything in the notes for people with questions, so lets get stuck in to rls bugs
13:39 <willcooke> 1st up is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1796822
13:39 <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1796822 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Desktop live cd boots corrupted screen in Virtualbox on Bionic" [Critical,Confirmed]
13:40 <willcooke> This is where you get a messed up screen when booting on Virtualbox.
13:40 <willcooke> We have threads open with tjaalton and foundations about this one, and I think it's a release blocker
13:40 <willcooke> so I vote to accept it, but then it's not really in our team to fix it.
13:41 <willcooke> I'm talking to the right people, so I think its under control
13:41 <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups-pk-helper/+bug/1290533
13:41 <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1290533 in cups-pk-helper (Ubuntu) "cups-pk-helper-mechanism crashed with signal 5 in g_variant_new_va()" [High,Confirmed]
13:41 <seb128> +1 for nominating it, we need an owner maybe tjaalton? he/we can reassign if we find another owner?
13:41 <willcooke> sorry, didnt mean to hit enter on that last line
13:42 <willcooke> tjaalton, you OK with me assigning it to you for now?
13:42 <tjaalton> sure
13:43 <seb128> the cups-pk-helper
13:43 <seb128> jibel, any reason you think it's a cosmic target bug?
13:43 <willcooke> Has LP suddently gone down for anyone else?
13:44 <seb128> e.u.c suggests we got 50k report in xenial, 2.2k in bionic, 131 in cosmic
13:44 <seb128> willcooke, wfm
13:44 <tjaalton> willcooke: yep
13:44 <willcooke> ok, I will assign that bug later
13:44 <Laney> that cups one could be notfixed but still assigned to Till, seems like it'd be a good one to fix
13:44 <seb128> I would vote -1 for the cups-pk-helper one, it's not new and numbers are somewhat low
13:45 <seb128> +1 for what Laney said
13:45 <didrocks> agreed with Laney
13:45 <willcooke> agreed
13:46 <andyrock> it has not been reproduced since end of August
13:46 <willcooke> k, LP is working again
13:46 <willcooke> bug updates
13:46 <willcooke> updated
13:46 <willcooke> next
13:46 <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1795637
13:46 <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1795637 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "No login screen when booting Cosmic" [High,Triaged]
13:46 <willcooke> This is the gdm issue where I get a black screen and cursor
13:46 <seb128> +1 for nominating
13:46 <willcooke> agreed.
13:46 <seb128> it's being worked but not moving fast enough imho
13:46 <didrocks> +1
13:47 <seb128> as I said previous week I think someone from our side should own it and drive to landing
13:47 <willcooke> I would like to find a proper owner for that one.  I can help with logs etc, but I think I'm getting in the way at this point
13:47 <seb128> because we might miss release at the upstream tempo
13:47 <willcooke> Who would like to help with that one?
13:48 <seb128> Trevinho, Laney, I think one of you needs to take that one please
13:48 <seb128> you are the ones who know gdm code/upstream best atm
13:49 <willcooke> I will assign when that's agreed
13:49 <willcooke> in the meantime
13:49 <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1796056
13:49 <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1796056 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "Xorg crashed with SIGABRT in glamor_egl_init()" [Medium,Confirmed]
13:49 <Laney> I've already been helping on the patch that was proposed and stuff, but it's hard to do it blind, so if I can make it happen with the SSD I just got then sure.
13:50 <seb128> k, let me know
13:50 <seb128> willcooke, +1 for the xserver one
13:50 <willcooke> who can we assign it to?
13:50 <seb128> not starting sessions regression the week before release are concerning
13:50 <seb128> it's assigned to Timo
13:51 <tjaalton> just took that
13:51 <seb128> tjaalton, you are working on driving that one to resolution?
13:51 <willcooke> ah thanks
13:51 <seb128> thx
13:51 <tjaalton> but fixing the vboxvideo loading will fix that too
13:51 <willcooke> ack
13:51 <willcooke> last one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozjs60/+bug/1796238
13:51 <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1796238 in mozjs60 (Ubuntu) "[regression] mozjs60 crashes with SIGSEGV on gnome-shell exit, in GetPropertyOperation() from Interpret() from js::RunScript()" [Medium,Confirmed]
13:51 <Trevinho> I can also look if needed
13:51 <Laney> -1
13:51 <Laney> that's niche
13:52 <seb128> we are confident it's only impacting "debugexit"?
13:52 <seb128> if so -1
13:52 <seb128> if we don't know I would vote +1
13:52 <andyrock> it could happen at shutdown
13:52 <andyrock> logout, stuff like this
13:52 <Laney> well, the bug reporter didn't answer my questions.
13:52 <seb128> better safe than sorry in that case?
13:52 <Laney> but *I* never made it happen
13:52 <Laney> other than at debugexit
13:52 <Laney> shrug
13:52 <seb128> I would say -0.5 then but to keep an eye on it
13:53 <andyrock> but we already have branches to *fix* this
13:53 <andyrock> the true issue is that gnome-shell --replace fails
13:53 <andyrock> because of the same reason
13:53 <seb128> you have a fix?
13:53 <andyrock> partials fixes
13:53 <Laney> stoppppppppp
13:53 <Laney> discussing the bugggggggggggggg
13:54 <andyrock> I'm not discussing ing
13:54 <andyrock> *it
13:54 <Laney> k
13:54 <andyrock> just explaining why it can be problematic to not fix it
13:54 <seb128> I don't think so :p  it's just that if it's owned/driven to resolution I vote to nominate and land the fix
13:54 <seb128> like assigned to andyrock and target
13:54 <seb128> and move on
13:54 <willcooke> +1 to assign
13:54 <Laney> you don't need to nominate a fix to upload it
13:54 <seb128> if others think it's ok?
13:54 <Laney> in my opinion this is not a release blocker
13:54 <Laney> but do it if you want to
13:54 <willcooke> ah, that's a good point
13:55 <seb128> right, I'm still concerned it has side effect and bite us back
13:55 <willcooke> ok, deciding to target and move on
13:55 <seb128> but it's only being cautious
13:55 <seb128> it might not
13:55 <seb128> anyway
13:55 <seb128> it's owned/assigned
13:55 <seb128> so I think targetted or not is fine either way
13:55 <willcooke> that's all the desktop-packages ones
13:55 <seb128> willcooke, you decide :)
13:55 <willcooke> already did
13:55 <Trevinho> +1 also
13:56 <Trevinho> can happen on shutdown too as said
13:56 <andyrock> +1
13:56 <willcooke> ok, I think thats all the bugs then
13:56 <Laney> I object to "I've worked on this bug" being a criterion for release miletoning
13:56 <seb128> wait
13:56 * Laney is clearly out of step with people
13:56 <Laney> that error bucket has hardly any reports
13:56 <andyrock> :)
13:56 <seb128> well, my motivation is
13:56 <seb128> - could have side effect and bite us back in other situations
13:56 <didrocks> well, it's going to be fixed, does the nomination discussion so important?
13:56 <seb128> - logout bugs generate apport noise
13:56 <didrocks> is*
13:57 <seb128> which reflects badly on the user perception of the OS
13:57 <andyrock> my motivation is: gnome-shell replaces completely crashes the X Server atm
13:57 <Trevinho> yep indeed. we don't need to prioritize more than already it is
13:57 <seb128> anyway, let's move on
13:57 <seb128> I've another one which I tagged by didn't hit the refresh in time
13:57 <seb128> bug #1691649
13:57 <ubot5> bug 1691649 in xdg-desktop-portal (Ubuntu) "xdg-desktop-portal crashed with SIGSEGV" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1691649
13:57 <Trevinho> so, assigned or not, it's still something is in the works. and there to be fixed. Can be later if something is more critical
13:58 <seb128> it's https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/70a7581dd245188e74367f2c31a505b664b972c9
13:58 <didrocks> seb128: bionic?
13:58 <didrocks> or it got worse recently?
13:58 <seb128> didrocks, no, we don't have portal in bionic
13:58 <seb128> didrocks, see ^
13:58 <seb128> it's cosmic only reports
13:59 * didrocks wonders why apport date is earlier thus and added the bionic tag
13:59 <didrocks> I guess the crash was always there, we just got more because we start seeding it, correct?
13:59 <seb128> likely
13:59 <seb128> it seems to at least impact the live session, according to jibel's comment
13:59 <didrocks> yeah, annoying…
13:59 <seb128> (just updated the description using the info from the duplicate)
14:00 <seb128> anyway
14:00 <seb128> I vote +1
14:00 <willcooke> Lets ask James in the morning?  I need to chat to him tomorrow about other things anyway
14:00 <didrocks> +1 thus
14:00 <willcooke> I can assign it to him now and if something changes we can update it
14:00 <seb128> willcooke, as you want, I would target/assign to jamesh
14:00 <seb128> k
14:00 <willcooke> done
14:01 <willcooke> #topic AOB
14:01 <willcooke> Anyone got anything else to talk about>?
14:01 <seb128> feedback from previous/this meeting
14:01 <seb128> that meeting reminded me about what Laney wrote in his feedback email
14:02 <seb128> I think the round of rls bug would be better if we had pre-meeting collecting of opinions
14:02 <seb128> and the review just be a vote in the meeting
14:02 <seb128> and not an argument
14:02 <seb128> e.g +1/0/-1
14:02 <seb128> and respect the quorum/votes without arguing
14:03 <Laney> not sure democracy is the best thing for this
14:03 <seb128> we tend to end up bikeshedding otherwise
14:03 <Laney> I think, as you might have guessed from what I was saying, that we lean too much to accepting bugs
14:03 <Laney> easier to +1 everything after all
14:03 <Laney> especially if it's someone else who is going to be doing whatever the work is
14:04 <Trevinho> -1 on democracy.
14:04 <seb128> so having managers to review/assign? still in that meeting?
14:04 <Laney> doesn't have to be managers
14:04 <seb128> managers/selected people
14:05 <Laney> Brian's not one of those as far as I know
14:05 <Trevinho> well, who's more experienced should be
14:05 <seb128> I guessed you would say that ;p
14:05 <didrocks> I guess we started to discuss that in meetings because we weren't happy that it was manager only deciding them
14:05 <seb128> right, we went circle :)
14:05 <oSoMoN> people with a good understanding of the bug and its consequences should decide, not everyone
14:05 <Trevinho> Like managers decide in case there's no decision otherwise
14:05 <Laney> Someone who is able to assess importance well, whoever that is.
14:06 <didrocks> sounds a little bit too blury to have anything practical from this statement, no?
14:06 <seb128> we need to call for an election :)
14:06 <oSoMoN> a desktop team TB ? ;)
14:06 <seb128> willcooke, I'm done on the topic, I think I got feedback for my comment and I need some time to think about the feedback
14:07 <seb128> so I'm not going to have more to say on that now
14:07 <willcooke> ok, I suggest we continue this thread later / on email.  A pre-meeting review sounds like a good idea.  Not sure when that can happen, but lets work it out
14:07 <seb128> others might want to keep discussing though, I'm not stopping the topic
14:07 <Laney> I was totally not lobbying for a pre meeting meeting
14:07 <Laney> just someone to lead the round with some initial opinions
14:07 <willcooke> got it
14:07 <seb128> that sounds good
14:08 <seb128> but that doesn't resolve the decision problem
14:08 <seb128> at least it would be one step in the right direction though
14:08 <Laney> nope, because I would have suggested -1ing that bug and you would have overruled me
14:08 <Laney> so, no good suggestion I guess.
14:09 <willcooke> oki, we can continue to think about it
14:09 <willcooke> Any other topics?
14:09 <seb128> not from me
14:09 <willcooke> New notes topic opened here: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/monday-15th-october-2018/8296
14:10 <willcooke> Closing in 5....4...
14:10 <willcooke> #endmeeting