== Meeting information ==
 * #ubuntu-desktop: Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-09, 09 Jan at 14:31 — 15:00 UTC
 * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-01-09-14.31.log.html]]



== Meeting summary ==

=== andyrock ===
The discussion about "andyrock" started at 14:34.


=== dgadomski ===
The discussion about "dgadomski" started at 14:34.


=== didrocks ===
The discussion about "didrocks" started at 14:35.


=== duflue ===
The discussion about "duflue" started at 14:36.


=== duflu ===
The discussion about "duflu" started at 14:36.


=== jbicha ===
The discussion about "jbicha" started at 14:37.

  * ''LINK:'' https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2018-January/msg00004.html 
  * ''LINK:'' https://wiki.mozilla.org/RapidRelease/Calendar 

=== jamesh ===
The discussion about "jamesh" started at 14:39.


=== jibel / heber ===
The discussion about "jibel / heber" started at 14:39.


=== kenvandine ===
The discussion about "kenvandine" started at 14:40.


=== Laney ===
The discussion about "Laney" started at 14:40.


=== oSoMoN ===
The discussion about "oSoMoN" started at 14:42.


=== seb128 ===
The discussion about "seb128" started at 14:43.


=== tkamppeter ===
The discussion about "tkamppeter" started at 14:44.


=== Trevinho ===
The discussion about "Trevinho" started at 14:45.


=== robert_ancell ===
The discussion about "robert_ancell" started at 14:45.


=== AOB ===
The discussion about "AOB" started at 14:46.

  * ''LINK:'' https://gitlab.gnome.org/csoriano/org.gnome.desktop-icons < is the extension
  * ''LINK:'' https://gitlab.gnome.org/csoriano/org.gnome.desktop-icons/issues/1 



== Vote results ==




== Done items ==

 * (none)



== People present (lines said) ==

 * willcooke_ (93)
 * didrocks (57)
 * seb128 (31)
 * jbicha (25)
 * oSoMoN (19)
 * Trevinho (18)
 * Laney (17)
 * jibel (11)
 * andyrock (8)
 * ubot5 (7)
 * kenvandine (5)
 * dgadomski (3)
 * meetingology (3)
 * gQuigs (3)
 * mdeslaur (1)
 * heber (1)



== Full Log ==


 14:31 <willcooke_> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-09

 14:31 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan  9 14:31:53 2018 UTC.  The chair is willcooke_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 14:31 <meetingology> 

 14:31 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick

 14:32 <didrocks> hey hey hey

 14:32 <willcooke_> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)

 14:32 <jbicha> o/

 14:32 <oSoMoN> o/

 14:32 <jibel> hi o/

 14:32 <andyrock> o/

 14:32 <seb128> hey

 14:32 <Laney> _o

 14:32 <heber> o/

 14:32 <Trevinho> 1o

 14:32 <Laney> ,o

 14:33 <Trevinho> o-

 14:33 <willcooke_> Happy new year gang!

 14:33 <Laney> o

 14:33 <Trevinho> ·

 14:33 <jbicha> Laney: did your arm fall off?

 14:33 <Laney> �

 14:33 * seb128 wonders what Trevinho and Laney are drawing

 14:33 <Laney> floating away

 14:33 <Trevinho> it can be a good random seed

 14:33 <andyrock> ahaha

 14:33 <willcooke_> Laney, how are you going to operate your digital watch now?

 14:33 <kenvandine> o/

 14:33 <willcooke_> bonus points for knowing that quote ^

 14:34 <willcooke_> let's start

 14:34 <willcooke_> #topic andyrock

 14:34 <andyrock> hey

 14:34 <andyrock> 1. Catching up after long holidays

 14:34 <andyrock> 2. Try to understand why livepatch notifications are not showed in bionic (some problem with symstemd path units)

 14:34 <andyrock> 3. Still working on the py-macaroonsbakery SRU

 14:34 <andyrock> 4. Some debug for possible regressions in the unity lockscreen

 14:34 <andyrock> 5. EOW

 14:34 <willcooke_> thanks andyrock

 14:34 <Laney> fraid not

 14:34 <willcooke_> #topic dgadomski

 14:34 <dgadomski> hey

 14:34 <dgadomski> sadly, nothing desktop-releated to share this year so far

 14:35 <dgadomski> eof

 14:35 <willcooke_> cheers dgadomski

 14:35 <willcooke_> #topic didrocks

 14:35 <didrocks> hey!

 14:35 <didrocks> * Dealing with a month of email backlog

 14:35 <didrocks> * Finally dealt with legal stuff in GNOME, we are now waiting on a new checkbox implementation on extensions.gnome.org

 14:35 <didrocks> * Mentor and guide students in Google code in (still ongoing)

 14:35 <didrocks> * Catching up with December's news. (I would like to desktop the nautilus desktop item in the AOB)

 14:35 <didrocks> * Relaunching Volume + extensions support discussion (seems no upstream movement on this though, but some suggestions from GNOME design team)

 14:35 <didrocks> * Catchup on new theme discussions and progress

 14:35 <didrocks> * MIR gnome-characters review

 14:35 <didrocks> .

 14:35 <willcooke_> thanks didrocks

 14:36 <willcooke_> #topic duflue

 14:36 <willcooke_> #topic duflu

 14:36 <willcooke_> * BlueZ 5.48 for bionic:

 14:36 <willcooke_> - Git setup done: https://git.launchpad.net/~bluetooth/bluez?h=ppa-bionic

 14:36 <willcooke_> - Completed testing with a few devices. Works well here. Possibly slightly better than 5.46 does right now?

 14:36 <willcooke_> - PPA ready (modulo blocked builds :P) for bionic: https://launchpad.net/~bluetooth/+archive/ubuntu/bluez

 14:36 <willcooke_> - Test at your leisure.

 14:36 <willcooke_> * Pure Wayland apps (including mpv) not responding to the mouse (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1739625)

 14:36 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1739625 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Mouse events pass through pure Wayland windows (that use wl_shell)" [High,In progress]

 14:36 <willcooke_> - Yes, really. I can't believe I missed this after recommending mpv to everyone.

 14:36 <willcooke_> - Invested a couple of days and proposed a fix upstream: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=790309

 14:36 <ubot5> Gnome bug 790309 in wayland "Wayland shell surface doesn't capture cursor or keyboard input" [Normal,New]

 14:36 <willcooke_> - This was also interesting to me to learn about Wayland's WM interfaces.

 14:36 <willcooke_> - Fix landing soon. I hope it will be in time for mutter 3.26.3.

 14:36 <willcooke_> * Unresponsive touchpads (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696929)

 14:36 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1696929 in libinput (Ubuntu Bionic) "Touchpads are unresponsive and laggy for small finger movements" [High,Triaged]

 14:36 <willcooke_> - Good news: Tested on more laptops with great success.

 14:36 <willcooke_> - Bad news: A couple of days ago upstream changed the algorithm again, in a risky way. So now I'm going to have to restart testing all over again. Then hopefully will distro-patch this week.

 14:36 <willcooke_> * HELP: Fixes still awaiting sponsorship:

 14:37 <willcooke_> - https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/gtk/fix-1698270/+merge/331846

 14:37 <willcooke_> - https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/totem/fix-1502476/+merge/333195

 14:37 <willcooke_> - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1732629

 14:37 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1732629 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Selecting USB Amp/Dac audio output in gnome sound does nothing" [Medium,In progress]

 14:37 <willcooke_> * Daily bug management across gnome-shell, mutter, gdm3, ubuntu-themes, bluez, pulseaudio, dkms, mir, wayland, totem, mpv, libinput.

 14:37 <willcooke_> * Completed retrospective bug reviews for all new bugs logged during my vacation: pulseaudio, totem, mpv, gnome-shell, mutter, dkms, wayland, ubuntu-themes, gdm3, mir

 14:37 <willcooke_> - Worth noting: gnome-shell needs more people answering its bugs.

 14:37 <willcooke_> - Also worth noting: nautilus (Ubuntu) needs a massive bug clean-out.

 14:37 <willcooke_> desktoppers, please take a look at the "HELP" section and see if you can sponsor any of those ^^

 14:37 <willcooke_> #topic jbicha

 14:37 <jbicha> • Finished converting most of Debian's pkg-gnome repos from svn to git

 14:37 <jbicha> • Filed bugs to help remove old GNOME2 libraries from Debian and Ubuntu

 14:37 <jbicha> • Filed a lot of GNOME bugs in 2017

 14:37 <jbicha> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2018-January/msg00004.html

 14:37 <jbicha> • Uploaded the Desktop Sharing panel for unity-control-center written by robert_ancell, updated by k_alam

 14:37 <jbicha> • Uploaded up-to-date vino, leaving only vala (scheduled for late January) and gnome-terminal/vte at the 3.24 versions as the only GNOME components not at 3.26

 14:38 <jbicha> • Mozilla has announced the next ESR will be 60 instead of 59. That means 18.04's Thunderbird will probably still depend on gtk2

 14:38 <jbicha> since 52 ESR still supports NPAPI plugins besides Flash.

 14:38 <jbicha> If debconf is ported to gtk3 soon, that will make 18.04.1 the first Ubuntu release without gtk2 (since it will have Thunderbird 60)

 14:38 <jbicha> https://wiki.mozilla.org/RapidRelease/Calendar

 14:38 <jbicha> • I won't be at next week's meeting

 14:38 <jbicha> • 😎

 14:38 <willcooke_> nice work jbicha, thanks a lot

 14:39 <willcooke_> #topic jamesh

 14:39 <willcooke_> gnome-software:

 14:39 <willcooke_> *produced debdiff for next xenial update based on Robert's work.

 14:39 <willcooke_> snapcraft:

 14:39 <willcooke_> *debugged font display issue for Electron based snaps using desktop

 14:39 <willcooke_> interface.  In the end a community member pointed out the issue: the

 14:39 <willcooke_> executable stack flag causes our AppArmor policy to stop fontconfig

 14:39 <willcooke_> from mmaping fonts and cache files.  I think we could do with a better

 14:39 <willcooke_> "lint" tools (or advertise the existing ones better).

 14:39 <willcooke_> snapd:

 14:39 <willcooke_> * followed up on my outstanding PRs.  We're trying to organise a time

 14:39 <willcooke_> for me, zyga and niemeyer to discuss how to proceed on the user-mounts

 14:39 <willcooke_> PR this week.

 14:39 <willcooke_> * I also chatted with zyga about the status of his extended content

 14:39 <willcooke_> interface PR (a prereq for implementing theme support).  He says all

 14:39 <willcooke_> its blockers have been merged, but it has a few merge conflicts that

 14:39 <willcooke_> need resolving.

 14:39 <willcooke_> #topic jibel / heber

 14:39 <jibel> - Testing of the Firefox snap

 14:39 <jibel> - Preparation work for bootspeed tests (automated provisioning and instrumentation of machines running bionic in the Taipei lab)

 14:39 <jibel> - Testing of 17.10.1 to fix bug 1734147. The target release date is this Thursday (Jan. 11th) Any help from someone with a spare lenovo machine is welcome.

 14:39 <ubot5> bug 1734147 in linux (Ubuntu) "corrupted BIOS due to Intel SPI bug in kernel" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734147

 14:39 <jibel> - Investigating distribution upgrade bug from 17.10 to 18.04 (bug 1742147)

 14:39 <ubot5> bug 1742147 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "upgrade from 17.10 to 18.04 fails with triggers looping" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1742147

 14:39 <jibel> - Fixed QA CI jobs in Jenkins. Testing now.

 14:39 <jibel> - Help in #ubuntu-google with task: Automate gnome-software tests: code approved but merge pending until we can run the tests on Jenkins (some nodes are still offline due to Meltdown/Spectre situation)

 14:40 <jibel> - Adding more automated tests for gnome-software

 14:40 <jibel> ..

 14:40 <willcooke_> thanks jibel

 14:40 <willcooke_> #topic kenvandine

 14:40 <kenvandine> * Worked on an issue with fonts not being displayed in electron apps when using the desktop interfaces, resolved now.

 14:40 <kenvandine> * Snapped the latest thunderbird beta

 14:40 <kenvandine> * Helped advocacy team with some snaps

 14:40 <kenvandine> EOF

 14:40 <willcooke_> thanks kenvandine

 14:40 <willcooke_> #topic Laney

 14:41 <Laney> o bit of post-holiday catching up

 14:41 <Laney> o snap seeding: allow specifying classic snaps as snap:foo/classic, awaiting review

 14:41 <Laney> o systemd user session: fix for session unlocking, start pushing wip branches, need to integrate stuff in build system for g-s-d and update some scripts in gnome-session then can push that one & report to the upstream bug to hopefully get some feedback (or maybe people will try it and can chat at fosdem)

 14:41 <Laney> o some reviews for andyrock

 14:41 <Laney> o little bit of mitigation work for spectre stuff on autopkgtest, also block some people who were crawling the web interface

 14:41 <Laney> o start looking at debian gnome-in-git stuff, thx jbicha for working on that

 14:41 <Laney> ?

 14:41 <willcooke_> thanks Laney

 14:41 <Laney> I can see my own emoji now that I'm on tmux

 14:41 <Laney> it's a beautiful day

 14:41 <willcooke_> I can't see it now

 14:41 <willcooke_> :(

 14:41 <Laney> :<

 14:41 <seb128> I saw a question mark this time :/

 14:42 <willcooke_> sam

 14:42 <willcooke_> e

 14:42 <Laney> you poor people

 14:42 <oSoMoN> it was an utf-8 question mark

 14:42 <seb128> lol

 14:42 <willcooke_> I will deal with this later ;)

 14:42 <willcooke_> #topic oSoMoN

 14:43 <oSoMoN> hey

 14:43 <oSoMoN> • firefox: tested snap

 14:43 <oSoMoN> • chromium

 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ bug triaging

 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ updated chromium beta to 64.0.3282.39 and updated snap in beta channel

 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ updated chromium dev to 65.0.3298.3 and updated snap in edge channel

 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ switched back to upstream desktop-gtk3 part and used DISABLE_WAYLAND=1

 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ verified that the snap issue with nvidia proprietary drivers is gone with snapd 2.30, on hardware I had access to during holidays

 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ next round of updates pending LP builders availability: stable 63.0.3239.132, beta 64.0.3282.71, dev 65.0.3311.3

 14:43 <oSoMoN> • libreoffice

 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ updated snap to 5.4.4 and successfully built locally, waiting on LP builders to produce an official build

 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ filed https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114915 and submitted https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/47605/

 14:43 <ubot5> bugs.documentfoundation.org bug 114915 in LibreOffice "Apparmor profiles contain invalid comments in variable assignments" [Normal,New]

 14:43 <oSoMoN> that's it from me

 14:43 <willcooke_> thanks oSoMoN

 14:43 <willcooke_> #topic seb128

 14:43 <seb128> * just back yesterday

 14:43 <seb128> * catching up on emails and what has been going on

 14:43 <seb128> * reviewed the team plans to start getting ready for the review meeting next week

 14:43 <seb128> </day>

 14:44 <willcooke_> thanks seb128

 14:44 <willcooke_> #topic tkamppeter

 14:44 <willcooke_> - GSoC 2018

 14:44 <willcooke_> o Filled mentoring org application forms for the Linux Foundation application

 14:44 <willcooke_> o Created project idea web pages for the Linux Foundation

 14:44 <willcooke_> o Listed the project ideas for OpenPrinting on the web pages: 14 ideas (mentors urgently needed)

 14:44 <willcooke_> - cups-filters: Improvements on the driverless printing PPD generator to use human-readable strings from CUPS

 14:44 <willcooke_> - printer drivers: Lexmark wants to make use of the new PCLm CUPS filter of GSoC 2017

 14:44 <willcooke_> - Bugs

 14:45 <willcooke_> #topic Trevinho

 14:45 <Trevinho> · Fixed others gjs issues and make it less strict on JS memory errors

 14:45 <Trevinho> · Reviews of some gnome bugs

 14:45 <Trevinho> · Fixed the encoding of gnome-shell screencast when using scaled fb (new scaling)

 14:45 <Trevinho> · Looking at fprintd integration

 14:45 <Trevinho> ···

 14:45 <willcooke_> thanks Trevinho

 14:45 <willcooke_> #topic robert_ancell

 14:46 <willcooke_> - Back from holidays

 14:46 <willcooke_> - update snapd-glib for changes in snapd

 14:46 <willcooke_> - working on guest session support

 14:46 <willcooke_> #topic AOB

 14:46 <willcooke_> didrocks, you're up

 14:46 <didrocks> so, Nautilus…

 14:47 <didrocks> as most of you know, they are removing the desktop feature in 3.28

 14:47 <didrocks> this leaves up for the LTS with some options (I'll had the link reference later on):

 14:47 <didrocks> - keep nautilus 3.26 for the LTS (and still enable the desktop feature in our session)

 14:47 <didrocks> pro: it works

 14:47 * seb128 votes that one

 14:47 * willcooke_ seconds

 14:47 <didrocks> cons: we are are not updating to latest

 14:48 <didrocks> - switch for desktop only to someting else like nemo

 14:48 <didrocks> pro: upstream suggests this

 14:48 <didrocks> cons: it's crazy, we are not going to support another code base for the LTS in addition to Nautilus

 14:48 <didrocks> also, it might not integrate well

 14:48 <didrocks> create new bugs

 14:48 <didrocks> - update nautilus to 3.28 and ship/work on the extension for G-S

 14:48 <didrocks> pro: long term solution

 14:49 <didrocks> cons: not enough time IMHO to deal with it

 14:49 <didrocks> will be detremendous to other options

 14:49 <seb128> does that extension exist?

 14:49 <didrocks> and other bug fixes

 14:49 <didrocks> it does

 14:49 <didrocks> it's a prototype though

 14:49 <seb128> in a working/feature complete state?

 14:49 <didrocks> have a lot of lacking feature

 14:49 <seb128> k

 14:49 <didrocks> and doesn't integrate DnD from Nautilus to desktop for instance

 14:49 <willcooke_> I say we stick with what we know works

 14:49 <jbicha> https://gitlab.gnome.org/csoriano/org.gnome.desktop-icons < is the extension

 14:49 <Trevinho> I guess integrating with nautilus is the hardest part, as it would probably need some new APIs

 14:49 <didrocks> I would suggest we keep Nautilus 3.26, and work on the extension in parallel

 14:49 <Trevinho> so, not really something we could reuse easily

 14:50 <oSoMoN> is there a clear development schedule for that extension?

 14:50 <Trevinho> yeah, agree

 14:50 <seb128> no

 14:50 <didrocks> as we will be likely be the only ones wanting this with some of the communities

 14:50 <seb128> csoriano doesn't plan to work on it

 14:50 <didrocks> there are items to get worked out on the issue tracker

 14:50 <jbicha> I think option 1 is what upstream expected from us, although I'm sure they hoped Canonical would choose option 3 now and help make it great

 14:50 <didrocks> but it's more a PoC

 14:50 <didrocks> we will need to work on it for keeping the desktop if it's what we want in the long term

 14:50 <didrocks> that will give us spare time, post FF, to work on it IMHO

 14:50 <didrocks> (I'm happy to have a look after March)

 14:50 <seb128> option 1 is what I told upstream on IRC we would likely do before holidays

 14:51 <didrocks> sounds like there is not surprise in this meeting, I was for option 1 as well :)

 14:51 <oSoMoN> sounds like option 1 is the only reasonable one

 14:51 <didrocks> no*

 14:51 <oSoMoN> so not much choice

 14:51 <seb128> one option we didn't list (but I don't know how doable it is) is to to distro patch revert the feature drop in 3.28

 14:51 <didrocks> https://gitlab.gnome.org/csoriano/org.gnome.desktop-icons/issues/1

 14:51 <didrocks> FYI is what is mainly lacking ^

 14:51 <seb128> but my understanding is that they drop the code because it blocks some refactoring they want to do

 14:51 <jbicha> I think we should consider disabling desktop icons by default even though it makes sense to stay with nautilus 3.26 for 18.04

 14:52 <seb128> so probably not easy to revert

 14:52 <didrocks> seb128: basically, Nautilus will have a real backend at some point

 14:52 <didrocks> (unsure if it's for 3.28)

 14:52 <didrocks> from that point, reverting will be really hard

 14:52 <oSoMoN> is nautilus 3.26 going to work well with the rest of the stack being 3.28 ?

 14:52 <Trevinho> jbicha: mh, not sure... I'm not a lover of them, but still otherwise it's just an empty space to me.

 14:52 <didrocks> however, from the extension, we need to help shaping the backend API

 14:52 <Trevinho> and people is used to have them around

 14:52 <didrocks> which is why it's interesting to contribute ASAP

 14:53 <Trevinho> oSoMoN: normally apps aren't broken in such cases

 14:53 <jbicha> Trevinho: I'm not saying we need to disable desktop icons; I think we should think about it though :)

 14:53 <seb128> oSoMoN, yes, it's mostly an application

 14:53 <didrocks> if people are interested in more details about the topic: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/nautilus/issues/158

 14:53 <Trevinho> also so far gnome 3.28 in terms of G-S/muttter changes isn't really a thing.. At least unless they won't merge the fractional branches! :-|

 14:54 <Trevinho> jbicha: yeah, sure... I just said my opinion :)

 14:54 <jbicha> also a useful link: > https://csorianognome.wordpress.com/2017/12/21/nautilus-desktop-plans/

 14:54 <didrocks> let's focus on 18.04 for now

 14:54 <seb128> didrocks, I think it would be nice to help/work on that but that feels like post-LTS, or at least not before the features that are important for the LTS land

 14:54 <jibel> to reply to jbicha disabling desktop icons by default will be a problem for the live session which has the installer, examples and oem setup icons on the desktop

 14:54 * Trevinho loves working with gnome's gitlab, btw :)

 14:54 <didrocks> I think keeping the desktop drawing icons make sense, we have a big transition already for LTS users (unity -> G-S)

 14:54 <didrocks> seb128: exactly my point (this is why I envision post FF)

 14:55 <jibel> if desktop icons are disabled these links should be moved to the launcher

 14:55 <seb128> let's see post FF what is most needed

 14:55 <didrocks> yep

 14:55 <didrocks> so, I guess +1 for staying on nautilus 3.26 for the LTS?

 14:55 <seb128> ubiquity is already in the launcher, examples might get removed from the desktop this cycle from what willcooke was saying

 14:55 <seb128> oem setup I don't know

 14:56 <seb128> didrocks, seems we have concensus on that option yes

 14:56 <seb128> thanks for bringing the topic up :)

 14:56 <didrocks> yw ;)

 14:56 <willcooke_> cool

 14:56 <willcooke_> anyone got anything else?

 14:56 <jbicha> (I support the nautilus 3.26 choice this cycle too)

 14:56 <didrocks> I'll put a reference on the community hub

 14:56 <willcooke_> thanks didrocks

 14:57 <willcooke_> ok, if there is nothing else, I will end the meeting

 14:57 <jbicha> the other concerned Ubuntu flavors (Budgie & Unity) should prepare for nautilus 3.28/3.30 for 18.10 though

 14:58 <seb128> what do they need to prepare?

 14:58 <jbicha> maybe something like the nemo-desktop app hack will actually work good enough for them

 14:58 <seb128> ah, to have a desktop

 14:58 <didrocks> yep, no G-S extension for them

 14:58 <gQuigs> is there a plan for what to use all that wasted space where people expect a desktop?  I can't find it in the design docs..

 14:58 <jbicha> they need to know that we don't necessarily plan to stay on nautilus 3.26 for long

 14:58 <seb128> or just switch away from nautilus to nemo

 14:59 <didrocks> I'll probably blog about it anyway on planet ubuntu (not this week, but maybe next one)

 14:59 <didrocks> that way, they will get the memo and 6 months to prepare a plan :)

 14:59 <jbicha> gQuigs: the idea is you use all that space for your running apps and don't spend time looking at an empty desktop ;)

 15:00 <gQuigs> jbicha: right, but it loads by default to an empty desktop (right?), so everyone has to look at it...

 15:00 <seb128> typical GNOME wishful thinking wanting users to behave as they expect and not as they do :p

 15:00 <mdeslaur> who cares about users? ;)

 15:00 <jbicha> gQuigs: GNOME 3 has always disabled desktop icons by default (so that's nearly 7 years now)

 15:00 <seb128> exactly, especially those who don't use the computer the way we tell them!

 15:00 <gQuigs> jbicha: yup, I was just expecting something to eventually happen with that space... oh qwll

 15:00 <seb128> willcooke_, you should wrap :)

 15:00 <willcooke_> #endmeeting



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