14:31 <willcooke_> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2018-01-09 14:31 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jan 9 14:31:53 2018 UTC. The chair is willcooke_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 14:31 <meetingology> 14:31 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick 14:32 <didrocks> hey hey hey 14:32 <willcooke_> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out) 14:32 <jbicha> o/ 14:32 <oSoMoN> o/ 14:32 <jibel> hi o/ 14:32 <andyrock> o/ 14:32 <seb128> hey 14:32 <Laney> _o 14:32 <heber> o/ 14:32 <Trevinho> 1o 14:32 <Laney> ,o 14:33 <Trevinho> o- 14:33 <willcooke_> Happy new year gang! 14:33 <Laney> o 14:33 <Trevinho> · 14:33 <jbicha> Laney: did your arm fall off? 14:33 <Laney> � 14:33 * seb128 wonders what Trevinho and Laney are drawing 14:33 <Laney> floating away 14:33 <Trevinho> it can be a good random seed 14:33 <andyrock> ahaha 14:33 <willcooke_> Laney, how are you going to operate your digital watch now? 14:33 <kenvandine> o/ 14:33 <willcooke_> bonus points for knowing that quote ^ 14:34 <willcooke_> let's start 14:34 <willcooke_> #topic andyrock 14:34 <andyrock> hey 14:34 <andyrock> 1. Catching up after long holidays 14:34 <andyrock> 2. Try to understand why livepatch notifications are not showed in bionic (some problem with symstemd path units) 14:34 <andyrock> 3. Still working on the py-macaroonsbakery SRU 14:34 <andyrock> 4. Some debug for possible regressions in the unity lockscreen 14:34 <andyrock> 5. EOW 14:34 <willcooke_> thanks andyrock 14:34 <Laney> fraid not 14:34 <willcooke_> #topic dgadomski 14:34 <dgadomski> hey 14:34 <dgadomski> sadly, nothing desktop-releated to share this year so far 14:35 <dgadomski> eof 14:35 <willcooke_> cheers dgadomski 14:35 <willcooke_> #topic didrocks 14:35 <didrocks> hey! 14:35 <didrocks> * Dealing with a month of email backlog 14:35 <didrocks> * Finally dealt with legal stuff in GNOME, we are now waiting on a new checkbox implementation on extensions.gnome.org 14:35 <didrocks> * Mentor and guide students in Google code in (still ongoing) 14:35 <didrocks> * Catching up with December's news. (I would like to desktop the nautilus desktop item in the AOB) 14:35 <didrocks> * Relaunching Volume + extensions support discussion (seems no upstream movement on this though, but some suggestions from GNOME design team) 14:35 <didrocks> * Catchup on new theme discussions and progress 14:35 <didrocks> * MIR gnome-characters review 14:35 <didrocks> . 14:35 <willcooke_> thanks didrocks 14:36 <willcooke_> #topic duflue 14:36 <willcooke_> #topic duflu 14:36 <willcooke_> * BlueZ 5.48 for bionic: 14:36 <willcooke_> - Git setup done: https://git.launchpad.net/~bluetooth/bluez?h=ppa-bionic 14:36 <willcooke_> - Completed testing with a few devices. Works well here. Possibly slightly better than 5.46 does right now? 14:36 <willcooke_> - PPA ready (modulo blocked builds :P) for bionic: https://launchpad.net/~bluetooth/+archive/ubuntu/bluez 14:36 <willcooke_> - Test at your leisure. 14:36 <willcooke_> * Pure Wayland apps (including mpv) not responding to the mouse (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1739625) 14:36 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1739625 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Mouse events pass through pure Wayland windows (that use wl_shell)" [High,In progress] 14:36 <willcooke_> - Yes, really. I can't believe I missed this after recommending mpv to everyone. 14:36 <willcooke_> - Invested a couple of days and proposed a fix upstream: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=790309 14:36 <ubot5> Gnome bug 790309 in wayland "Wayland shell surface doesn't capture cursor or keyboard input" [Normal,New] 14:36 <willcooke_> - This was also interesting to me to learn about Wayland's WM interfaces. 14:36 <willcooke_> - Fix landing soon. I hope it will be in time for mutter 3.26.3. 14:36 <willcooke_> * Unresponsive touchpads (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696929) 14:36 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1696929 in libinput (Ubuntu Bionic) "Touchpads are unresponsive and laggy for small finger movements" [High,Triaged] 14:36 <willcooke_> - Good news: Tested on more laptops with great success. 14:36 <willcooke_> - Bad news: A couple of days ago upstream changed the algorithm again, in a risky way. So now I'm going to have to restart testing all over again. Then hopefully will distro-patch this week. 14:36 <willcooke_> * HELP: Fixes still awaiting sponsorship: 14:37 <willcooke_> - https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/gtk/fix-1698270/+merge/331846 14:37 <willcooke_> - https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/totem/fix-1502476/+merge/333195 14:37 <willcooke_> - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1732629 14:37 <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1732629 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Selecting USB Amp/Dac audio output in gnome sound does nothing" [Medium,In progress] 14:37 <willcooke_> * Daily bug management across gnome-shell, mutter, gdm3, ubuntu-themes, bluez, pulseaudio, dkms, mir, wayland, totem, mpv, libinput. 14:37 <willcooke_> * Completed retrospective bug reviews for all new bugs logged during my vacation: pulseaudio, totem, mpv, gnome-shell, mutter, dkms, wayland, ubuntu-themes, gdm3, mir 14:37 <willcooke_> - Worth noting: gnome-shell needs more people answering its bugs. 14:37 <willcooke_> - Also worth noting: nautilus (Ubuntu) needs a massive bug clean-out. 14:37 <willcooke_> desktoppers, please take a look at the "HELP" section and see if you can sponsor any of those ^^ 14:37 <willcooke_> #topic jbicha 14:37 <jbicha> • Finished converting most of Debian's pkg-gnome repos from svn to git 14:37 <jbicha> • Filed bugs to help remove old GNOME2 libraries from Debian and Ubuntu 14:37 <jbicha> • Filed a lot of GNOME bugs in 2017 14:37 <jbicha> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2018-January/msg00004.html 14:37 <jbicha> • Uploaded the Desktop Sharing panel for unity-control-center written by robert_ancell, updated by k_alam 14:37 <jbicha> • Uploaded up-to-date vino, leaving only vala (scheduled for late January) and gnome-terminal/vte at the 3.24 versions as the only GNOME components not at 3.26 14:38 <jbicha> • Mozilla has announced the next ESR will be 60 instead of 59. That means 18.04's Thunderbird will probably still depend on gtk2 14:38 <jbicha> since 52 ESR still supports NPAPI plugins besides Flash. 14:38 <jbicha> If debconf is ported to gtk3 soon, that will make 18.04.1 the first Ubuntu release without gtk2 (since it will have Thunderbird 60) 14:38 <jbicha> https://wiki.mozilla.org/RapidRelease/Calendar 14:38 <jbicha> • I won't be at next week's meeting 14:38 <jbicha> • 😎 14:38 <willcooke_> nice work jbicha, thanks a lot 14:39 <willcooke_> #topic jamesh 14:39 <willcooke_> gnome-software: 14:39 <willcooke_> *produced debdiff for next xenial update based on Robert's work. 14:39 <willcooke_> snapcraft: 14:39 <willcooke_> *debugged font display issue for Electron based snaps using desktop 14:39 <willcooke_> interface. In the end a community member pointed out the issue: the 14:39 <willcooke_> executable stack flag causes our AppArmor policy to stop fontconfig 14:39 <willcooke_> from mmaping fonts and cache files. I think we could do with a better 14:39 <willcooke_> "lint" tools (or advertise the existing ones better). 14:39 <willcooke_> snapd: 14:39 <willcooke_> * followed up on my outstanding PRs. We're trying to organise a time 14:39 <willcooke_> for me, zyga and niemeyer to discuss how to proceed on the user-mounts 14:39 <willcooke_> PR this week. 14:39 <willcooke_> * I also chatted with zyga about the status of his extended content 14:39 <willcooke_> interface PR (a prereq for implementing theme support). He says all 14:39 <willcooke_> its blockers have been merged, but it has a few merge conflicts that 14:39 <willcooke_> need resolving. 14:39 <willcooke_> #topic jibel / heber 14:39 <jibel> - Testing of the Firefox snap 14:39 <jibel> - Preparation work for bootspeed tests (automated provisioning and instrumentation of machines running bionic in the Taipei lab) 14:39 <jibel> - Testing of 17.10.1 to fix bug 1734147. The target release date is this Thursday (Jan. 11th) Any help from someone with a spare lenovo machine is welcome. 14:39 <ubot5> bug 1734147 in linux (Ubuntu) "corrupted BIOS due to Intel SPI bug in kernel" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734147 14:39 <jibel> - Investigating distribution upgrade bug from 17.10 to 18.04 (bug 1742147) 14:39 <ubot5> bug 1742147 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "upgrade from 17.10 to 18.04 fails with triggers looping" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1742147 14:39 <jibel> - Fixed QA CI jobs in Jenkins. Testing now. 14:39 <jibel> - Help in #ubuntu-google with task: Automate gnome-software tests: code approved but merge pending until we can run the tests on Jenkins (some nodes are still offline due to Meltdown/Spectre situation) 14:40 <jibel> - Adding more automated tests for gnome-software 14:40 <jibel> .. 14:40 <willcooke_> thanks jibel 14:40 <willcooke_> #topic kenvandine 14:40 <kenvandine> * Worked on an issue with fonts not being displayed in electron apps when using the desktop interfaces, resolved now. 14:40 <kenvandine> * Snapped the latest thunderbird beta 14:40 <kenvandine> * Helped advocacy team with some snaps 14:40 <kenvandine> EOF 14:40 <willcooke_> thanks kenvandine 14:40 <willcooke_> #topic Laney 14:41 <Laney> o bit of post-holiday catching up 14:41 <Laney> o snap seeding: allow specifying classic snaps as snap:foo/classic, awaiting review 14:41 <Laney> o systemd user session: fix for session unlocking, start pushing wip branches, need to integrate stuff in build system for g-s-d and update some scripts in gnome-session then can push that one & report to the upstream bug to hopefully get some feedback (or maybe people will try it and can chat at fosdem) 14:41 <Laney> o some reviews for andyrock 14:41 <Laney> o little bit of mitigation work for spectre stuff on autopkgtest, also block some people who were crawling the web interface 14:41 <Laney> o start looking at debian gnome-in-git stuff, thx jbicha for working on that 14:41 <Laney> ? 14:41 <willcooke_> thanks Laney 14:41 <Laney> I can see my own emoji now that I'm on tmux 14:41 <Laney> it's a beautiful day 14:41 <willcooke_> I can't see it now 14:41 <willcooke_> :( 14:41 <Laney> :< 14:41 <seb128> I saw a question mark this time :/ 14:42 <willcooke_> sam 14:42 <willcooke_> e 14:42 <Laney> you poor people 14:42 <oSoMoN> it was an utf-8 question mark 14:42 <seb128> lol 14:42 <willcooke_> I will deal with this later ;) 14:42 <willcooke_> #topic oSoMoN 14:43 <oSoMoN> hey 14:43 <oSoMoN> • firefox: tested snap 14:43 <oSoMoN> • chromium 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ bug triaging 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ updated chromium beta to 64.0.3282.39 and updated snap in beta channel 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ updated chromium dev to 65.0.3298.3 and updated snap in edge channel 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ switched back to upstream desktop-gtk3 part and used DISABLE_WAYLAND=1 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ verified that the snap issue with nvidia proprietary drivers is gone with snapd 2.30, on hardware I had access to during holidays 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ next round of updates pending LP builders availability: stable 63.0.3239.132, beta 64.0.3282.71, dev 65.0.3311.3 14:43 <oSoMoN> • libreoffice 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ updated snap to 5.4.4 and successfully built locally, waiting on LP builders to produce an official build 14:43 <oSoMoN> ∘ filed https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114915 and submitted https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/47605/ 14:43 <ubot5> bugs.documentfoundation.org bug 114915 in LibreOffice "Apparmor profiles contain invalid comments in variable assignments" [Normal,New] 14:43 <oSoMoN> that's it from me 14:43 <willcooke_> thanks oSoMoN 14:43 <willcooke_> #topic seb128 14:43 <seb128> * just back yesterday 14:43 <seb128> * catching up on emails and what has been going on 14:43 <seb128> * reviewed the team plans to start getting ready for the review meeting next week 14:43 <seb128> </day> 14:44 <willcooke_> thanks seb128 14:44 <willcooke_> #topic tkamppeter 14:44 <willcooke_> - GSoC 2018 14:44 <willcooke_> o Filled mentoring org application forms for the Linux Foundation application 14:44 <willcooke_> o Created project idea web pages for the Linux Foundation 14:44 <willcooke_> o Listed the project ideas for OpenPrinting on the web pages: 14 ideas (mentors urgently needed) 14:44 <willcooke_> - cups-filters: Improvements on the driverless printing PPD generator to use human-readable strings from CUPS 14:44 <willcooke_> - printer drivers: Lexmark wants to make use of the new PCLm CUPS filter of GSoC 2017 14:44 <willcooke_> - Bugs 14:45 <willcooke_> #topic Trevinho 14:45 <Trevinho> · Fixed others gjs issues and make it less strict on JS memory errors 14:45 <Trevinho> · Reviews of some gnome bugs 14:45 <Trevinho> · Fixed the encoding of gnome-shell screencast when using scaled fb (new scaling) 14:45 <Trevinho> · Looking at fprintd integration 14:45 <Trevinho> ··· 14:45 <willcooke_> thanks Trevinho 14:45 <willcooke_> #topic robert_ancell 14:46 <willcooke_> - Back from holidays 14:46 <willcooke_> - update snapd-glib for changes in snapd 14:46 <willcooke_> - working on guest session support 14:46 <willcooke_> #topic AOB 14:46 <willcooke_> didrocks, you're up 14:46 <didrocks> so, Nautilus… 14:47 <didrocks> as most of you know, they are removing the desktop feature in 3.28 14:47 <didrocks> this leaves up for the LTS with some options (I'll had the link reference later on): 14:47 <didrocks> - keep nautilus 3.26 for the LTS (and still enable the desktop feature in our session) 14:47 <didrocks> pro: it works 14:47 * seb128 votes that one 14:47 * willcooke_ seconds 14:47 <didrocks> cons: we are are not updating to latest 14:48 <didrocks> - switch for desktop only to someting else like nemo 14:48 <didrocks> pro: upstream suggests this 14:48 <didrocks> cons: it's crazy, we are not going to support another code base for the LTS in addition to Nautilus 14:48 <didrocks> also, it might not integrate well 14:48 <didrocks> create new bugs 14:48 <didrocks> - update nautilus to 3.28 and ship/work on the extension for G-S 14:48 <didrocks> pro: long term solution 14:49 <didrocks> cons: not enough time IMHO to deal with it 14:49 <didrocks> will be detremendous to other options 14:49 <seb128> does that extension exist? 14:49 <didrocks> and other bug fixes 14:49 <didrocks> it does 14:49 <didrocks> it's a prototype though 14:49 <seb128> in a working/feature complete state? 14:49 <didrocks> have a lot of lacking feature 14:49 <seb128> k 14:49 <didrocks> and doesn't integrate DnD from Nautilus to desktop for instance 14:49 <willcooke_> I say we stick with what we know works 14:49 <jbicha> https://gitlab.gnome.org/csoriano/org.gnome.desktop-icons < is the extension 14:49 <Trevinho> I guess integrating with nautilus is the hardest part, as it would probably need some new APIs 14:49 <didrocks> I would suggest we keep Nautilus 3.26, and work on the extension in parallel 14:49 <Trevinho> so, not really something we could reuse easily 14:50 <oSoMoN> is there a clear development schedule for that extension? 14:50 <Trevinho> yeah, agree 14:50 <seb128> no 14:50 <didrocks> as we will be likely be the only ones wanting this with some of the communities 14:50 <seb128> csoriano doesn't plan to work on it 14:50 <didrocks> there are items to get worked out on the issue tracker 14:50 <jbicha> I think option 1 is what upstream expected from us, although I'm sure they hoped Canonical would choose option 3 now and help make it great 14:50 <didrocks> but it's more a PoC 14:50 <didrocks> we will need to work on it for keeping the desktop if it's what we want in the long term 14:50 <didrocks> that will give us spare time, post FF, to work on it IMHO 14:50 <didrocks> (I'm happy to have a look after March) 14:50 <seb128> option 1 is what I told upstream on IRC we would likely do before holidays 14:51 <didrocks> sounds like there is not surprise in this meeting, I was for option 1 as well :) 14:51 <oSoMoN> sounds like option 1 is the only reasonable one 14:51 <didrocks> no* 14:51 <oSoMoN> so not much choice 14:51 <seb128> one option we didn't list (but I don't know how doable it is) is to to distro patch revert the feature drop in 3.28 14:51 <didrocks> https://gitlab.gnome.org/csoriano/org.gnome.desktop-icons/issues/1 14:51 <didrocks> FYI is what is mainly lacking ^ 14:51 <seb128> but my understanding is that they drop the code because it blocks some refactoring they want to do 14:51 <jbicha> I think we should consider disabling desktop icons by default even though it makes sense to stay with nautilus 3.26 for 18.04 14:52 <seb128> so probably not easy to revert 14:52 <didrocks> seb128: basically, Nautilus will have a real backend at some point 14:52 <didrocks> (unsure if it's for 3.28) 14:52 <didrocks> from that point, reverting will be really hard 14:52 <oSoMoN> is nautilus 3.26 going to work well with the rest of the stack being 3.28 ? 14:52 <Trevinho> jbicha: mh, not sure... I'm not a lover of them, but still otherwise it's just an empty space to me. 14:52 <didrocks> however, from the extension, we need to help shaping the backend API 14:52 <Trevinho> and people is used to have them around 14:52 <didrocks> which is why it's interesting to contribute ASAP 14:53 <Trevinho> oSoMoN: normally apps aren't broken in such cases 14:53 <jbicha> Trevinho: I'm not saying we need to disable desktop icons; I think we should think about it though :) 14:53 <seb128> oSoMoN, yes, it's mostly an application 14:53 <didrocks> if people are interested in more details about the topic: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/nautilus/issues/158 14:53 <Trevinho> also so far gnome 3.28 in terms of G-S/muttter changes isn't really a thing.. At least unless they won't merge the fractional branches! :-| 14:54 <Trevinho> jbicha: yeah, sure... I just said my opinion :) 14:54 <jbicha> also a useful link: > https://csorianognome.wordpress.com/2017/12/21/nautilus-desktop-plans/ 14:54 <didrocks> let's focus on 18.04 for now 14:54 <seb128> didrocks, I think it would be nice to help/work on that but that feels like post-LTS, or at least not before the features that are important for the LTS land 14:54 <jibel> to reply to jbicha disabling desktop icons by default will be a problem for the live session which has the installer, examples and oem setup icons on the desktop 14:54 * Trevinho loves working with gnome's gitlab, btw :) 14:54 <didrocks> I think keeping the desktop drawing icons make sense, we have a big transition already for LTS users (unity -> G-S) 14:54 <didrocks> seb128: exactly my point (this is why I envision post FF) 14:55 <jibel> if desktop icons are disabled these links should be moved to the launcher 14:55 <seb128> let's see post FF what is most needed 14:55 <didrocks> yep 14:55 <didrocks> so, I guess +1 for staying on nautilus 3.26 for the LTS? 14:55 <seb128> ubiquity is already in the launcher, examples might get removed from the desktop this cycle from what willcooke was saying 14:55 <seb128> oem setup I don't know 14:56 <seb128> didrocks, seems we have concensus on that option yes 14:56 <seb128> thanks for bringing the topic up :) 14:56 <didrocks> yw ;) 14:56 <willcooke_> cool 14:56 <willcooke_> anyone got anything else? 14:56 <jbicha> (I support the nautilus 3.26 choice this cycle too) 14:56 <didrocks> I'll put a reference on the community hub 14:56 <willcooke_> thanks didrocks 14:57 <willcooke_> ok, if there is nothing else, I will end the meeting 14:57 <jbicha> the other concerned Ubuntu flavors (Budgie & Unity) should prepare for nautilus 3.28/3.30 for 18.10 though 14:58 <seb128> what do they need to prepare? 14:58 <jbicha> maybe something like the nemo-desktop app hack will actually work good enough for them 14:58 <seb128> ah, to have a desktop 14:58 <didrocks> yep, no G-S extension for them 14:58 <gQuigs> is there a plan for what to use all that wasted space where people expect a desktop? I can't find it in the design docs.. 14:58 <jbicha> they need to know that we don't necessarily plan to stay on nautilus 3.26 for long 14:58 <seb128> or just switch away from nautilus to nemo 14:59 <didrocks> I'll probably blog about it anyway on planet ubuntu (not this week, but maybe next one) 14:59 <didrocks> that way, they will get the memo and 6 months to prepare a plan :) 14:59 <jbicha> gQuigs: the idea is you use all that space for your running apps and don't spend time looking at an empty desktop ;) 15:00 <gQuigs> jbicha: right, but it loads by default to an empty desktop (right?), so everyone has to look at it... 15:00 <seb128> typical GNOME wishful thinking wanting users to behave as they expect and not as they do :p 15:00 <mdeslaur> who cares about users? ;) 15:00 <jbicha> gQuigs: GNOME 3 has always disabled desktop icons by default (so that's nearly 7 years now) 15:00 <seb128> exactly, especially those who don't use the computer the way we tell them! 15:00 <gQuigs> jbicha: yup, I was just expecting something to eventually happen with that space... oh qwll 15:00 <seb128> willcooke_, you should wrap :) 15:00 <willcooke_> #endmeeting