21:02:14 <AlanBell> #startmeeting
21:02:14 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 15 21:02:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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21:02:19 <charlie-tca> Nowish?
21:02:26 <charlie-tca> Hi, AlanBell
21:02:29 <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team/MeetingAgenda
21:02:31 <AlanBell> hi charlie-tca
21:03:06 <AlanBell> I think we will have a fairly slowish meeting, there are not too many items on the agenda and some others might pop in
21:04:21 <charlie-tca> Okay, I may have to reboot my xchat in between, so if I disappear, I will be back, sometimes in 15 minutes
21:04:51 <AlanBell> thats fine, no great hurry
21:05:34 <AlanBell> so we have an agenda starting with a review of the overall team blueprint, the testing blueprint and the development blueprint then any other business
21:06:00 <AlanBell> the current point in the cycle is that Alpha 2 is out, and Feature Freeze is tomorrow
21:06:11 <charlie-tca> in the meantime, testing screenreader installs in 10.04.4
21:10:51 <AlanBell> #topic Review Community Accessibility Team Blueprint ( https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-accessibility-team-community-goals )
21:11:29 <charlie-tca> How do I say, I haven't gotten to those things, and may not?
21:12:12 <AlanBell> deferred I think
21:12:19 <charlie-tca> I am too thin this cycle for my own good
21:13:07 <AlanBell> yeah, I have a lot of stuff on and I am not getting all the stuff done I wanted to :(
21:14:24 <AlanBell> I think that 12.04 is generally a lot more testable than 11.10 was, just we all seem a bit pressed for time to do much testing this cycle
21:15:00 <charlie-tca> Yeah, I agree. I will try and get some testing on it next week, so I can try to update the test case for QA
21:15:59 <AlanBell> there is a neat unity testing script tool that they have provided now, it would be nice to add accessibility test cases to that
21:16:37 <charlie-tca> I have given up on trying to do any automation. It seems I do not have enough knowledge to do it
21:18:13 <AlanBell> I did do a dummy speech dispatcher plugin that pipes output to a file like this http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/orca.out
21:18:25 <AlanBell> I think this is handy for documenting bugs in speech output
21:18:57 <AlanBell> "Erase Ubuntu precise and reinstall Replace Windows with Ubuntu." that is one, I don't have windows but the accessible text tells me I have!
21:19:35 <charlie-tca> Shouldn't that be "replace existing OS with Ubuntu"?
21:19:42 <AlanBell> probably
21:20:01 <charlie-tca> or maybe it doesn't even belong there. It is just a mistake
21:20:29 <AlanBell> yeah, last time I reported it I think ev didn't believe me that it was spoken or something
21:20:45 <charlie-tca> Yeah, we get that sometimes
21:20:46 <AlanBell> anyhow, there are still plenty of bugs like that in ubiquity and other applications,
21:21:07 <charlie-tca> It's hard to understand the speech if you don't concentrate enough
21:21:53 <AlanBell> yeah, a transcript is much more useful on a bug report than someone describing what they heard
21:21:53 <charlie-tca> That report is the spoken output?
21:22:08 <charlie-tca> That's neat!
21:22:10 <AlanBell> yeah, it is what orca sends to speech dispatcher
21:22:23 <AlanBell> instead of piping it to espeak it redirects it to a file
21:22:39 <charlie-tca> That should be a lot of help with bug reports.
21:23:13 <AlanBell> yeah, joanie thought I was mad when I told her what I was doing :)
21:23:44 <AlanBell> I think I should probably write an article about that, and maybe get some help packaging it so it is easy to install
21:25:50 <charlie-tca> Please
21:26:03 <charlie-tca> We can use that kind of application.
21:26:17 <charlie-tca> She maybe did not understand it.
21:26:56 <charlie-tca> Well, maybe better keep going on this meeting thing/
21:26:58 <AlanBell> yes, I think it is an important use-case
21:27:01 <AlanBell> indeed
21:27:39 <AlanBell> personas is another thing on that blueprint, I kind of did the Simon persona, but it is not published yet, I need to review that with someone
21:28:18 <AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/simon
21:29:49 <charlie-tca> What needs to happen?
21:30:04 <AlanBell> well someone other than me needs to read it and see if it makes sense
21:30:12 <charlie-tca> That's one of them things pendulum should be reviewing
21:30:17 <AlanBell> then need to put it in a blog article and put it in the wiki
21:30:21 <charlie-tca> I am not good at it
21:30:24 <AlanBell> ok
21:31:12 <AlanBell> right, lets move on to the next blueprint
21:31:23 <AlanBell> #topic Review Accessibility Testing Blueprint ( https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-accessibility-team-testing )
21:32:21 <AlanBell> so we need to do more testing and probably get a bit better about tracking important bugs
21:32:29 <charlie-tca> okay
21:32:46 <charlie-tca> looks like I am all over that one, too. I will try to look at it this week
21:33:07 <AlanBell> we have the Ubuntu Global Jam weekend coming up, it might be good to get various loco teams doing accessibility testing
21:33:25 <AlanBell> if people are looking for stuff to do then testing the installer and desktop with orca would be great
21:33:30 <charlie-tca> Keep that in mind, anyway
21:33:47 <charlie-tca> We have to get a good test case written for them to use
21:38:42 <AlanBell> or just run through some of the untity testing application with orca turned on
21:39:27 <AlanBell> ok, lets move on and read through the development blueprint
21:39:29 <charlie-tca> Yeah, that would work too. We seem to have more testers for precise than in the past, too
21:39:38 <AlanBell> #topic Review Development Blueprint ( https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-accessibility-polish )
21:40:35 <AlanBell> I know quite a few items here were postponed
21:40:53 <charlie-tca> yup
21:41:01 <charlie-tca> anything on the ezoom plugin yet?
21:41:05 <AlanBell> I have been investigating ezoom text cursor tracking, it was unstable with two monitors
21:41:27 <AlanBell> well actually it was unstable on one monitor, after you had used it on two monitors
21:42:07 <AlanBell> I need to re-test that, I think it is something that could go in a PPA in precise, not sure it is ready for prime time
21:42:29 <charlie-tca> okay
21:42:44 <AlanBell> it is pretty good though, I was trying to do a screencast of it when it started crashing my machine
21:43:11 <AlanBell> other stuff going on, I have been pestering gord about HUD accessibility
21:43:50 <charlie-tca> great, got orca stuck on United States Denver in my install
21:43:57 <AlanBell> balloons is new to the community team and is doing QA stuff, I showed him how to get orca output to a file and he was going to look into whether that would be useful for automated tests
21:44:10 <charlie-tca> great
21:44:39 <charlie-tca> He is getting involved more. But, you know, it takes at least a cycle to get get things together
21:44:50 <AlanBell> oh and there was this proposal by jcastro to drop compizconfig-settings-manager from the distribution
21:44:57 <charlie-tca> yeah
21:45:14 <charlie-tca> I saw that and made my compaint. Unity is not the only thing uses compiz
21:45:38 <AlanBell> one of the main issues was people with scrollwheels accidentally operating sliders, so I contributed a patch to remove them all
21:46:11 <AlanBell> the proposal to drop it has basically been droppped now, it looks like it is staying there
21:46:13 <charlie-tca> The biggest issue is no one who installs compiz without Unity will have any settings available
21:47:18 <AlanBell> there have been a number of patches to make it a bit safer for users, fundamentally the problem is that various compiz plugins can be a bit crashy when asked to re-read their settings (looking at you unity)
21:47:49 <charlie-tca> But that should not mean we take the ability to change away from non-unity users
21:47:51 <AlanBell> so they fall over in a heap with various .cpp files throwing out errors about not freeing nux objects correctly
21:48:08 <AlanBell> nothing whatsoever to do with the python ccsm applicaition
21:48:55 <AlanBell> so yeah, ccsm got unfairly blamed for compiz plugin crashes, anyhow, we are monitoring that, and contributing fixes where possible.
21:49:41 <charlie-tca> Good. I hate the idea that if Unity doesn't need it, let's toss it
21:49:53 <AlanBell> indeed
21:50:52 <AlanBell> ok, so this is not the most productive meeting ever, I think we should mail the list with the minutes, do some actions and have a bit of a renewed effort to get intensive testing and polishing done after feature freeze
21:51:10 <AlanBell> #endmeeting