== Meeting information == * #lubuntu-devel: Lubuntu Meeting - April 2017, 14 Apr at 18:54 — 20:38 UTC * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/lubuntu-devel/2017/lubuntu-devel.2017-04-14-18.54.log.html]] == Meeting summary == === Attendance === The discussion about "Attendance" started at 18:55. * ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda === lubuntu.me === The discussion about "lubuntu.me" started at 18:57. * ''ACTION:'' wxl to check in with the CC regarding lubuntu.net versus lubuntu.me * ''ACTION:'' wxl to get Canonical hosting for lubuntu.me * ''ACTION:'' redwolf to review and fix screenshots === Team role shift === The discussion about "Team role shift" started at 19:10. === ARTWORK!!! === The discussion about "ARTWORK!!!" started at 19:21. * ''LINK:'' https://design.ubuntu.com/brand/colour-palette * ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Marketing#Colour_palette === Development === The discussion about "Development" started at 19:25. * '''17.04 and before''' (19:28) * '''Discuss the replacement of gnome-mplayer (unmaintained) by gnome-mpv''' (19:40) * ''LINK:'' https://gnome-mpv.github.io * ''Vote:'' Move to mpv from gnome-mplayer (Carried) * '''Discuss the possible removal of blueman by a lxpanel applet''' (19:44) * '''''' (19:49) * '''Discuss the possible replacement of network-manager by dhcpcd/dhcpcd-gtk''' (19:49) * ''LINK:'' https://roy.marples.name/projects/dhcpcd-ui * ''Vote:'' Move to dhcpcd for network management by 17.10 Alpha 1 (Carried) * ''ACTION:'' gilir to switch Lubuntu's network stack to dhcpcd for 17.10 Alpha 1 * ''ACTION:'' gilir to switch to mpv from gnome-mplayer in the seed for 17.10 === Donations === The discussion about "Donations" started at 20:07. * ''ACTION:'' wxl to look into other resources for legal help other than sflc === LXQt === The discussion about "LXQt" started at 20:10. * ''Vote:'' Should we keep working on an LXQt Lubuntu? (Carried) * ''ACTION:'' tsimonq2 to get LXQt image for Alpha 1 === mkusb === The discussion about "mkusb" started at 20:31. == Vote results == * [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/lubuntu-devel/2017/lubuntu-devel.2017-04-14-18.54.log.html#429 Move to dhcpcd for network management by 17.10 Alpha 1]] * Motion carried (For/Against/Abstained 4/0/0) * Voters wxl, gilir, sudodus, tsimonq2 * [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/lubuntu-devel/2017/lubuntu-devel.2017-04-14-18.54.log.html#527 Should we keep working on an LXQt Lubuntu?]] * Motion carried (For/Against/Abstained 5/0/0) * Voters wxl, lyn||ian, gilir, sudodus, tsimonq2 * [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/lubuntu-devel/2017/lubuntu-devel.2017-04-14-18.54.log.html#306 Move to mpv from gnome-mplayer]] * Motion carried (For/Against/Abstained 4/0/0) * Voters wxl, redwolf, lyn||ian, tsimonq2 == Action items, by person == * gilir * gilir to switch Lubuntu's network stack to dhcpcd for 17.10 Alpha 1 * gilir to switch to mpv from gnome-mplayer in the seed for 17.10 * redwolf * redwolf to review and fix screenshots * tsimonq2 * tsimonq2 to get LXQt image for Alpha 1 * wxl * wxl to check in with the CC regarding lubuntu.net versus lubuntu.me * wxl to get Canonical hosting for lubuntu.me * wxl to look into other resources for legal help other than sflc == Done items == * (none) == People present (lines said) == * tsimonq2 (217) * wxl (120) * gilir (86) * redwolf (48) * meetingology (44) * lyn||ian (38) * sudodus (34) * Night_Stranger (7) * marcoceppi (2) * Unit193 (1) * lubot (1) * acheronUK (1) == Full Log == 18:54 #startmeeting Lubuntu Meeting - April 2017 18:54 Meeting started Fri Apr 14 18:54:44 2017 UTC. The chair is tsimonq2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 18:54 18:54 Available commands: action commands idea info link nick 18:54 #chair tsimonq2 wxl 18:54 Current chairs: tsimonq2 wxl 18:54 Hello everyone! 18:55 Welcome to the first Lubuntu meeting we've had in a while. :) 18:55 Hello chairmen! 18:55 #topic Attendance 18:55 Please wave if you're here to show attendance 18:55 oh 18:55 um agenda 18:55 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda 18:56 o/ 18:56 o/ 18:56 o/ 18:56 o/ 18:56 redwolf, gilir: Here? :) 18:57 I'm assuming they're around given that they've been recently active here. 18:57 Moving on... 18:57 o/ 18:57 :) 18:57 #topic lubuntu.me 18:57 I'm going to give this one to wxl and redwolf 18:58 What's new with lubuntu.me? 18:58 Are we still going with Canonical's hosting? Where is it hosted now? 18:58 it is linked to by the slideshow in the installer now 18:58 the plan is to go with their hosting 18:58 they have the domain, but we haven't got sysadmins to move the system over. i'll be honest, i haven't touched this in a while. i'll get on it and hopefully have a timeline next meeting 18:59 wxl: Have we hard back from certain people regarding .me vs. .net? 18:59 *heard 18:59 no 18:59 Ok. 18:59 i have tried to check in a couple times 18:59 including a time when .net was done 18:59 s/one/own/ 18:59 no response.. :/ 19:00 wxl: Would you be willing to give them one last poke and maybe talk to one of those certain people over IRC? 19:00 yes, i'll check in with the cc :) 19:01 meanwhile redwolf has been constantly picking away at dressing things up 19:01 #action wxl to check in with the CC regarding lubuntu.net versus lubuntu.me 19:01 * meetingology wxl to check in with the CC regarding lubuntu.net versus lubuntu.me 19:01 you'll see new download buttons on the homepage 19:01 they actually work, not just the text 19:01 #action wxl to get Canonical hosting for lubuntu.me 19:01 * meetingology wxl to get Canonical hosting for lubuntu.me 19:01 wxl: So where is it hosted now, then? 19:02 marcoceppi has graciously given us hosting on a machine he has access to 19:02 which is where it has been 19:02 Ok. 19:02 There are problems go download from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/17.04/release/lubuntu-17.04-alternate-amd64.iso and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/17.04/release/lubuntu-17.04-alternate-i386.iso 19:03 s/go/to 19:03 I'm here :) 19:03 do we know how other flavors deals with their website hosting ? 19:03 just curious :-) 19:03 Interesting question gilir :) 19:03 what problems, sudodus ? 19:03 flexiondotorg: Would you be able to shed some light on how you do this? ^ 19:03 \o 19:04 gilir: they either have canonical do it or host themselves. my concern with the latter is over the last time hosting was in the hands of one member 19:04 Hey marcoceppi :) 19:04 website error I think 19:04 hi marcoceppi didn't mean to ping you :) 19:04 no worries cheers o/ 19:04 marcoceppi: You wear various relevant hats if you want to chime in at all? :) 19:04 wxl: Yeah, I'd rather have it in a neutral location. 19:05 wxl, ok, so hosting by canonical is not special for us 19:05 i see the problem, sudodus. thanks for pointing that out. i'll check with release on that 19:05 gilir: No, I don't think it is. 19:05 gilir: correct, although some folks get sick of their slowness :) 19:05 And while we're talking about the website, redwolf has made this awesome little page right here that I want to point out: http://lubuntu.me/about/ 19:05 O.O 19:06 If you feel you're on the Lubuntu team and want on that page, let us know :) 19:06 well, perfect solution is to have hosted by us, but I don't think we have the time / ressources to do it properly :-/ 19:06 oops shows old website on that image 19:06 gilir: yes, especially sysadmin time 19:06 and changing buttons (in progress): http://lubuntu.me/downloads/ 19:06 Absolutely gilir 19:06 omg, lyn||ian that is so ironic 19:06 if you look at the url 19:06 did I say I love this website ? :-) 19:07 redwolf: Fix it? :D 19:07 awww, stop it you, gilir ^^ 19:07 does gilir's image load for you guys? 19:07 gilir: I know, it's a great website :D 19:07 gilir has no avatar 19:07 wxl: Which? 19:07 oic wxl 19:07 yes, the image is fine ;-) 19:08 gilir, do you like the new buttons? pure CSS. simpler. more effective 19:08 So do we have anything else to discuss about the website besides redwolf being a top notch web designer? :D 19:08 our site was looking weird on Gnome's browser and other webkit ones (like Safari) 19:08 oh there was nothing for me because privacy badger was blocking launchpad. nevermind. blank works :) 19:08 redwolf, buttons on the top ? yes :-) 19:08 redwolf, except that it's double underlined 19:08 yup, blue ones. I'm removing beveled ones 19:08 ^ 19:09 the menu. yes, I have to fix that 19:09 great :-) 19:09 didn't still shows lubuntu-software-center as well on website but in 17.04 isn't that not seeded 19:09 #action redwolf to review and fix screenshots 19:09 * meetingology redwolf to review and fix screenshots 19:09 since we don't have a section for it, maybe we should talk about other graphic design stuff? 19:10 wxl: We do have a section 19:10 noted that: update screenshots 19:10 nevermind :) 19:10 But I think I'd like to move on if that's OK ;) 19:10 Oh shoot, I forgot an item. 19:10 #topic Team role shift 19:11 We've had some time since the last meeting, and since then, wxl has passed the torch to me for being Release Manager. 19:11 wxl: Would you like to give us more details on this? 19:12 well, tsimonq2 has been apprenticing under me for quite a while 19:12 i let him take over much of the controls and he did a darn good job 19:12 he really wanted the role, too :) 19:12 we're all agreed, I think 19:12 i tried to make him bug manager but he wasn't having it :) 19:12 so that's what i'm going to try to do 19:12 ^ XD 19:13 although my personal life has really increased the gap between what i want to do and what i have done :( 19:13 OK 19:13 wxl mine too somewhat 19:13 wxl: So what are you doing now then for Lubuntu? Give us details on your new positions? 19:13 yeah, good job tsimonq2 :-) 19:13 * wxl hugs lyn||ian 19:13 Thanks gilir :) 19:13 my ultimate goal is to stay on top of bugs 19:13 * tsimonq2 also hugs lyn||ian 19:13 wxl, real life sucks :-p 19:14 yeah.. 19:14 what's real life? XD 19:14 i'd like to create a bug team 19:14 i'm not sure how to do that yet :) 19:14 meanwhile, i'm going to try shuffling through our bugs 19:14 weeding out the dupes and the invalids 19:14 confirming the ones that are for real 19:15 etc. 19:15 wxl, first, you need people to make a team :-) 19:15 EXACTLY 19:15 wxl: AbiWord is 10 hours in and of itself 19:15 so for now we have a team of 1 :) 19:15 I will likely join 19:15 SO MANY BUGS 19:15 1 is not a team :-) 19:15 tsimonq2: i'm going to start with LXDE stuff first, thank you very much :) 19:15 I have to spend more time with real life, so I must step down (have already started, as you might have noticed). 19:15 Me too, if I have the time (which I have less of) 19:15 wxl: XD 19:15 sudodus: I saw that. 19:16 Speaking of that, does anyone have anything else to add on this topic before we move on? Any opinions? 19:16 just one other thing from me 19:16 Sure :) 19:16 i've also been working with kubuntu in the recent past on packaging 19:17 when i get caught up on bugs, i hope to help somewhat with some of the trivial packaging needs 19:17 that way gilir can work on actual bug fixes! 19:17 Me as well. 19:17 O.O 19:17 I set a goal for myself - by Feature Freeze of this release, I'd like to apply for MOTU. 19:18 thanks, you let me the hardest stuff to fix :-( 19:18 (notice I don't say "get" because they may not approve me) 19:18 XD gilir 19:18 gilir: Well you have a really good amount of packaging skills, so simple stuff is just wasting time if others can do it. ;) 19:19 besides that, gilir, none of us are really well equipped to deal with c++ 19:19 ^ 19:19 i can read it, generally, but there are some subtlties that make it hard for me to really help with 19:19 I kind of know C++ but have troubles working with other codebases and have not done much 19:19 wxl, me either, you know ... 19:20 I only deal with C, and it's not easy every day :-( 19:20 oh my 19:20 well even c sometimes.. 19:20 gilir, now you talk about coding... I have a question, but maybe it needs to be another topic 19:20 Which reminds me... 19:21 I should get bug control but need to apply 19:21 lyn||ian: same 19:21 i'll get there eventually, but we need to have some of this other stuff taken care of 19:21 +1 wxl 19:21 Anyways... 19:21 #topic ARTWORK!!! 19:21 bug control is a good start for dealing with bugs :-) 19:21 O.O! 19:21 redwolf: Your turn! 19:21 redwolf: Tell us all about your whereabouts! 19:22 well, dunno. first thing: the site 19:22 I'm doing changes. but I'll showed you all this, so no need for chatting about 19:22 brb 19:22 redwolf: One thing I want to ask you about. 19:22 wxl: ack 19:22 icons and glyphs: gilir and I keep regular contact if any app (specially Qt ones) need some artwork 19:23 do ask, tsimonq2 19:23 redwolf: So you know how the Ubuntu Design Team has their palette? 19:23 https://design.ubuntu.com/brand/colour-palette 19:23 yes 19:23 why? 19:23 redwolf: How hard would it be for you to make something similar? 19:23 I see myself more frequently wanting one of these. 19:23 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Marketing#Colour_palette 19:24 OH 19:24 Huh 19:24 Ok 19:24 :| 19:24 Hello everyone! Can I ask a question about LXDE development? Or it'll be off-top? 19:24 smaller items, because we don't need such a wide range to cover 19:24 Wellllllllllllllllllllll it's not advertized good enough then XD 19:24 tsimonq2, :) 19:24 tsimonq2, you can even download it 19:24 Night_Stranger: Give me just a sec 19:25 redwolf: Anything else to talk about here? 19:25 yes, but it's regarding future development (desktop) 19:25 Ok. 19:25 not artwork 19:25 #topic Development 19:26 my turn! 19:26 Night_Stranger: Ask your question now :) 19:26 :| 19:26 Well, do you have a plan to add old parts of LXDE from git.lxde.org to github.com/lxde ? Because there is only LXTerminal remains. I wanted to make a pull request for libfm but it's impossible, because of lack of majority of LXDE parts on github. Sorry English is not my native language. 19:26 gilir: If you want to address all of your meeting items now, you can. 19:26 Night_Stranger: I don't believe we're the right people to ask about this. Try #lxde on freenode? 19:27 Night_Stranger, github is not where LXDE parts are maintained 19:27 Night_Stranger, you shoudl look at https://git.lxde.org/gitweb/ 19:28 #subtopic 17.04 and before 19:28 Grr is that not a thing, meetingology ? 19:28 and currently it's not planned to have all of them on github ... but you can publish your changes to github, and post on the bugtracker the link 19:29 That works too. :) 19:29 gilir: So then whenever you're ready. 19:29 ok 19:30 first, there was a couple of changes on the last releases 19:30 gilir, but LXTerminal is there on github. Yes, I know about git.lxde.org, and I tried even to send an e-mail with PR to one of main developers about a half year ago, but he doesn't answer me. I know he may bust, but not to answer about a half year... I don't know what to do. 19:30 gilir, are you going to set the Lubuntu theme by default? last image had Frost activated 19:30 *busy 19:30 for exemple, pulseaudio by default, or the software center 19:31 Night_Stranger, I'll check with you after the meeting :-) 19:31 I just wanted to have your opinions on those changes, are the feedbacks from the users are good, bad ... 19:32 I'm kind of disconnected since a while :-) 19:32 Thanks, gilir, I'll be here then till the end of discussion. 19:32 I actually have not heard any problems with pulseaudio 19:32 I like pulseaudio. (I do not use Software Centers, but command line or Synaptic.) 19:33 the only problems i have heard, at all, have surrounded snd_hda_intel, but that's not because of pulseaudio :) 19:33 Well, we have had problems with Lubuntu 16.04 LTS. Since only alsa is used, it broke Firefox's audio since they disabled alsa in the default build. 19:33 s/disabled alsa/disabled alsa support/ 19:33 tsimonq2, but well, not really our fault :-) 19:34 gilir: Yeah I agree, not really. :) 19:34 Yes I know about that 19:34 But it's unfortunate. 19:34 the thing we have to realize, too, is that taking up additional resources is not necessarily a bad thing. the "old computers" that people are using are getting newer as time goes by :) 19:35 yeah I am not using my pentium IV anymore really 19:35 wxl: And I'd like to discuss that in a different topic. ;) 19:35 wxl, yes, but I really would like to add stuff only if it's really necessary 19:35 +1 (the ten year old limit is a moving target) 19:35 +1 gilir 19:35 +1 19:35 yeah and pulseaudio SHOULD provide a better experience 19:35 +1 19:36 +1 19:36 although i remember at one time when i first started following lubuntu, there was an argument about whether or not we should include a clipboard manager XD 19:36 ok, also there any other topics on 17.04 ? Any big issues on dev part ? 19:36 I have a question 19:36 Wayland? 19:36 gilir: Not on 17.04 but on 16.04, actually. 19:36 redwolf: Go away. :) 19:36 the X server 19:37 all flavours agreed to move to Wayland (KDE already in work). does it affect us? 19:37 gilir: Should we consider replacing Firefox in 16.04 LTS? It's not entirely out of the question if we work with the release team. 19:37 well one thing is going to wayland will require a big change to lubuntu default settings 19:37 How do you like using a swapfile instead of a swap partition? And the size is below that necessary for hibernation. 19:37 the only other thing affecting 17.04 is some networking issue(s?) that release team is working on. i haven't seen them personally, so don't know what to say 19:37 redwolf, let's talk about when X will not be maintained on official repositories, ok ? :-) 19:37 Yeah wxl 19:38 The *default* size 19:38 okies, gilir :) 19:38 sudodus: I don't use swap or hibernation so others will have to answer that. 19:38 going back to the firefox thing, i think we should stay with it 19:39 i use a swapfile and i like it 19:39 I have a swapfile not sure I use swap really 19:39 tsimonq2, not removing Firefox. If it can't be fix, we will have to add PA I'm afradi :-/ 19:39 gilir: That's fair. 19:40 +1 for keeping Firefox 19:40 +1 keep firefox 19:40 #subtopic Discuss the replacement of gnome-mplayer (unmaintained) by gnome-mpv 19:40 What's this all about, gilir? 19:40 https://gnome-mpv.github.io 19:40 ok, you may know (or not :-)) that gnome-mplayer is not maintained anymore 19:41 it was removed from Debian, and I asked to keep it on Ubuntu until we have a solution 19:41 yes I do not think gnome-mplayer works well at all 19:41 well, I think we have a solution :-) 19:41 I vote for using maintained software 19:41 hahahah me too 19:41 ^ 19:41 lyn||ian, it's working, but yes people reported issues with it 19:41 I have had it crash on startup on opening an audio podcast 19:41 +1 for mpv 19:42 +1 mpv 19:42 what about codecs? 19:42 i think this is a no-brainer. what *dis*advantage is there to using mpv? 19:42 +1 19:42 redwolf, as far as I know, it used the same tech that gnome-mplayer 19:42 nice 19:42 it's just the UI which change a bit 19:42 Just for record's sake... 19:43 it looks better. reminds me to newest Totem 19:43 #voters sudodus wxl redwolf lyn||ian tsimonq2 19:43 Current voters: lyn||ian redwolf sudodus tsimonq2 wxl 19:43 redwolf, me too, I loved totem years ago ... 19:43 :) 19:43 it might be good to know that mpv is a fork of mplayer2 and MPlayer https://mpv.io/ 19:43 +1 mpv 19:43 #vote Move to mpv from gnome-mplayer 19:43 Please vote on: Move to mpv from gnome-mplayer 19:43 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) 19:43 #votesrequired 4 19:43 votes now need 4 to be passed 19:43 +1 19:43 +1 received from redwolf 19:43 +1 19:43 +1 received from wxl 19:43 +1 19:43 +1 received from lyn||ian 19:43 +1 19:43 +1 received from tsimonq2 19:43 +1 19:44 #endvote 19:44 Voting ended on: Move to mpv from gnome-mplayer 19:44 Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 19:44 Motion carried 19:44 what ? I can't vote :-) 19:44 OH shoot 19:44 LOL 19:44 +1 19:44 Well it was carried anyways, I did that for record's sake. 19:44 heheh 19:44 sorry, I have to leave now 19:44 k 19:44 :( 19:44 Bai redwolf :( 19:44 well, I was going to do the change anyway :-p 19:44 gilir: :P 19:44 brb in 1 hour 19:44 o/ 19:44 #subtopic Discuss the possible removal of blueman by a lxpanel applet 19:44 o/ redwolf 19:45 Bye redwolf 19:45 Explain this one, gilir? 19:45 ok that's a more tricky one :-) 19:45 I do not use anything bluetooth so I am a bit ignorant on this front 19:45 ^ 19:45 there is a raspberry OS, using LXDE, and they added some new stuff 19:46 including an applet to configure bluetooth stuff 19:46 i do use bluetooth 19:46 so i can test this out 19:46 do we have it packaged or in a ppa or can i compile it myself? 19:47 gilir: So are you saying that we're looking to have this on by default? 19:47 i have both output and input devices, too. several. 19:47 I propose to add it earlier in 17.10, and to turn it on by default 19:47 and several adapters 19:47 assuming it provides a similar experience to blueman, i'm all for it 19:47 we can keep blueman for a time, but I think it will not be so usefull with the applet enable 19:47 what's upstream's take on this? 19:47 Then let's do it :) 19:48 Oh, yeah, +1 wxl 19:48 wxl, well, it's a lot more ... simple :-) 19:48 What about the CD size issue of the alternate iso files? 19:48 sudodus: We have an agenda item for that. 19:49 sudodus, that's another problem, the applet itself is small (not adding depends) 19:49 sudodus: i think we just need to accept that as reality. core changes are pretty much beyond our control and very hard to keep up with. besides, are there many usable machines any more that can't handle dvd and/or usb? 19:49 Last thing here... 19:49 #subtopic 19:49 Discuss the possible replacement of network-manager by dhcpcd/dhcpcd-gtk 19:49 I mean what is the size of the new bluetooth applet? 19:49 Grrr 19:49 sudodus: tl;dr it would be smaller 19:49 Oh, I get it sudodus 19:49 I agree with wxl, probably... 19:49 fine :-) 19:49 #subtopic Discuss the possible replacement of network-manager by dhcpcd/dhcpcd-gtk 19:50 the change would just be an additional plugin in lxpanel (as i understand it) 19:50 I do not know what the ui of dhcpcd is 19:50 ok, this one is the worst :-) 19:50 but blueman has several requirements 19:51 wxl, I hoped to remove it for a bit of space :-) 19:51 im not familiar with dhcpcd either 19:51 but I'm not sure it will be significant 19:51 so, I found that there is actually a possible replacement for network-manager stack 19:52 oh and it already has an lxde panel plugin? or is that just dhcpcd-ui 19:52 wxl, there is a plugin (on raspberry OS), but it's not working very well 19:52 ah ic that now 19:53 wxl, but dhcpcd-gtk is a tray icon, so it's not mandatory to have the applet working 19:53 nice 19:53 it's better, but not mandatory :-) 19:53 and requirements are next to none 19:53 https://roy.marples.name/projects/dhcpcd-ui 19:53 exactly :-) 19:53 i tested also with wifi, it's working as expected 19:54 nice 19:54 what about vpn? 19:54 what about setting up bridged networking 19:54 that's the problem :-) there is probably other uses cases to test :-) 19:54 I probably should be the one to test that 19:54 i'll check on the vpn 19:55 network-manager is nice, because the support is great, for many uses cases 19:55 and changing the network stack is quite dangerous 19:55 well, it's kind of critical :-) 19:55 hahahah 19:55 I am happy with network-manager 19:55 a little bit 19:56 you should see the comments about the networking issues i aforementioned 19:56 So anything else on this? 19:57